By Guest Blogger Larry Stone
The Mayor and the County Assessor (me) have been widely ridiculed by people posting on San Jose Inside and the San Jose Mercury editorial regarding the press conference at the Phoenix Municipal Stadium prior to a Giants vs. A’s game. I have to admit some of the commentary was very funny, like the good-natured ribbing I got from my old friend Jude. Some of it, however, was pretty rough.
The photographs initially appeared only on the Mayor’s website until the Merc editors essentially lifted Jude’s blog, and reprinted one photo along with a critical editorial. While the event visually appeared kind of goofy in the photos, the results of the press conference exceeded everyone’s expectations. I prefer to focus on the positive results which have received no attention from the local media or San Jose Inside bloggers.
The purpose of the press conference was to gain national media attention regarding San Jose’s initiative to secure a major league baseball team, and to convey to MLB owners, the inequity of the territorial rights strangle hold the San Francisco Giants have on San Jose. By any measure that objective was accomplished with news articles or briefs in the following publications:
Sports Illustrated
Portland Oregonian
USA Today
San Diego Union Tribune
Washington Post
Rocky Mountain News
New York Daily News
Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel
Baltimore Sun
New Orleans Times Picayune
Philadelphia Inquirer
Seattle Times
Chicago Tribune
San Francisco Chronicle
Dallas Morning News
San Jose Mercury News (Purdy and Witt)
Boston Globe
Oakland Tribune
Cincinnati Post
San Francisco Examiner
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Santa Rosa Press Democrat
CBS Sportsline
An Internet search also shows coverage in many other smaller newspapers and broadcast outlets. The Mayor achieved exactly what he was trying to accomplish. Attracting major league baseball to San Jose is a long, difficult and complicated endeavor requiring united support from our political, business and community leaders. Now that the Mayor is stepping up and doing something positive in support of bringing MLB to San Jose he does not deserve the criticism. As for me: Booo!
Larry Stone is the Santa Clara County Assessor.
Larry Stone, has made the following proclamation:
No criticism of the mayor allowed.
Larry, please read the First Amendment, and then also please read the job description for Assessor (since you seem fascinated about performance reviews for people in the Assessor’s Office), and then get back to us about press conferences and huckleberries.
Why can’t you spell, boo, correctly?
With all this time the Mercury News is devoting to this, are you the one that Ceppos is related to?
Now, let’s get down to business. Today Mayor Gonzales wrote a letter to the editor, and today, you wrote a blog, about the fact that the press and the citizens are not allowed to crticize you or Ron.
Let Freedom Ring.
Now, I have a request for all bloggers?
Is Ron Gonzales still relevant?
Is it now time that we begin a grassroots, internet movement to evaluate the following replacements:
Cindy Chavez
Tom McEnery
Chuck Reed
Dave Cortese
Pat Dando
How long should we expect Ron to remain?
By the way, KB Homes has proclaimed, along with Larry, the First, that the Del Monte site may have homes, but no historic buildings.
So, also, on the referendum, can I ask for votes on the new name for San Jose:
San KB?
KB Home Valley?
Del Monte KB?
your input will be appreciated, but, in accordance with Larry’s demand, No Criticism, please!!
To those of us who feel that pro baseball in SJ is another ‘Titanic’ of waste and scandal yet to be foisted onto the taxpayers, Ron and the current crop are truly heaven sent.
Wow…this was covered by both the Chronicle AND the SJ Mercury! But wait…it also got into the Examiner and…fasten your seat belt…THE SANTA ROSA PRESS DEMOCRAT!!!
Come on now Larry, attempts to pad the list are just a little silly.
If the A’s aren’t going to move to San Jose, and it currently looks like they don’t intend to, why is anyone even pursuing this? The Bay Area will never get a 3rd major league team. Even the greater New York City area has only two teams so unless the A’s and the commissioner can be convinced San Jose is where the team belongs, this is a dead issue.
Larry-don’t be such a malcontent!
This is tomfoolery.
You didn’t spell boo correctly!
It appears that if you had done your homework, you could have received significantly more media attention from major media outlets instead of the second and third tier media outlets you cite.
Mr. Stone,
As a native of San Jose, military veteran and current employee of Santa Clara County, I just wanted to take the time to thank the Mayor and yourself for your efforts. As a young boy growing up in San Jose, I played little league baseball and continued on into High School. My Mom and dad would take us to Giants and A’s games, and it would be a dream come true if I could one day do the same for my kids…IN A CROWN JEWEL OF A MAJOR LEAGUE BALLPARK IN DOWNTOWN SAN JOSE!! Mr. Stone, please disregard all the people on this blog trying to be funny, and for the thousands of sports fans living in San Jose…SHOVE THOSE GIANTS TERRITORIAL RIGHTS DOWN EVIL MAGOWANS THROAT AND BRING MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL (A’s) TO MY HOMETOWN! Thank you. And by the way, how could anyone in their right mind refer to Sports Illustrated, USA Today, and the Washington Post as “second and third tier media outlets?”
Anthony
Your quote:
“SHOVE THOSE GIANTS TERRITORIAL RIGHTS DOWN EVIL MAGOWANS THROAT AND BRING MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL (A’s) TO MY HOMETOWN!”
Why is Magowen evil? He’s just being a business person. He’s done more for bay area baseball then anyone posting on this board. His group funded the buyout of the Giants (which stopped them from moving) and paid to build SBC without city or county money.
Stone and Gonzalez wouldn’t dare take a risk if the Giants hadn’t been such a unbelievable success.
As for:
“CROWN JEWEL OF A MAJOR LEAGUE BALLPARK IN DOWNTOWN SAN JOSE!!”
only thing we have ever had that is a crown jewel of anything is the QuezoCotle. It’s the crown jewel of crap!
Both Larry Stone and Ron Gonzales are doing this baseball stuff for pure politics and land use money.
Hey, Mr Mayor, you have never been interested in attending any SAN JOSE State game that I can remember.
The same goes with Larry Stone, they claim to be the big sports enthusiasts, but we have a stadium that needs a fixin’
SPARTAN STADIUM
At Least Schott helped Santa Clara University, but you guys, talk the stadium talk, but when it is time to suppor the home teams, Ron speaks, and the stadium lights go out.
Any message, there?
You two come to a San Jose State game, then talk the sports talk.
Again Mr. Gonzales and Mr. Stone, Thank you for your efforts. There are thousands of citizens and sports fans in the South Bay/San Jose who support you. As for why Evil Magowan is “Evil,” because his stance on communist territorial rights is hindering our effort at landing a Major League Baseball franchise (A’s). As someone who served in the military and fought for freedom in Democracy, I find it appalling the power this one man has over San Jose’s sports future. I DONT’ CARE WHAT MAGOWAN HAS DONE FOR THE GIANTS AND SAN FRANCISCO! It doesn’t make him the lord of the Bay Area. If you want to kiss up to Evil Magowan and his so called accomplishments, go to some San Francisco blog…THIS IS SAN JOSE!!
Every veteran should be acknowledge, respected, and commended for what they have done for all of us who did not choose to serve their country in the military. It is good that generals must salute Medal of Honor winners who are enlisted personnel, and we must stop being nasty to people seeking to recruit people to fight for our freedom.
As the son and grandson of two individuals who served in units that received Presidential Citations, and Battle Stars, permit me to say, that there a plenty of veterans that support the Giants, and indeed, my father, who was a accomplished veteran maintained his opposition to hastily prepared stadium proposals. Stone and Gonzales have nothing to offer San Jose in terms of parks, neighborhoods, or proper contracts for city services. Ron is the Mayor of KB Homes, which wants the Del Monte Site, and Larry is the KB Homes Chief Minister.
We just heard on another blog site, Spartan Thunder, that Ron Gonzales, Mayor of San Jose, sent a dollar bill to SJSU a few years ago, when they asked for support. I hope this is not true, because if it is, then I believe all San Jose State alumni, need to contact the Mayor, and send him a dime for this ballpark deal.
Mr. Rowen,
Points all well taken. But in stating your points, you have indirectly supported my opinion regarding territorial rights and our freedom to choose. It’s not about being a Giants fan, it’s not about supporting the current mayor or his proposals, and it’s not about supporting a major league relocation/ball park construction to San Jose. It’s about our freedom to choose our own destiny. We might not all agree on baseball coming to San Jose, BUT IT SHOULD BE OUR DECISION…not Magowans or MLB’s upper echelon. I, along with others, want MLB in San Jose…other might not. BUT WE SHOULD BE THE ONES TO DECIDE. Your Dad and Grandad, who I commend as a proud veteran, would wholeheartedly agree.
Talking about bringing major league baseball to San Jose is a complete waste of time. Selig has stated numerous times that he does not intend to let this happen. Even the A’s new owner has vowed not to challenge these territorial rights. The mayor is wasting taxpayers time and money in this hopeless quest. San Jose voters turned down a chance to lure MLB when they voted down a Giants ballpark back in ‘92. They cried then about taxpayer subsidies. The A’s have stated that they’ll chip in no more than approx 25% of the cost for a new stadium. Where do you think the other $300M or so will be expected to come from? That’s right – the taxpayers. Since there are many many more Giants fans than A’s fans in the South Bay, why does anyone think that the average taxpayer would support a huge subsidy for the A’s any more than they would for the Giants. Mr. Gonzalez and Stone should work on real issues facing the city, not pie in the sky ones like these.
San Jose is such a loser. The downtown doesn’t even compete with smaller cities such as Pasadena, lincoln and oakland. Their downtown is way better. First fix and enlarge the downtown with everything and over develop if desire. Then we can talk baseball in SJ.
I did not know that focusing on just baseball, and my roots in the sport go back to the last century is acceptable when we have libraries with no materials, and a city with no leadership.
You go ahead, play with the ball, Larry and Ron, just have someone that wants to address the needs of the city while you two play with signs.
Anthony D –
Whew – let’s see if we can work our way thru this torrent of illogic re: baseball’s “communistic” terratorial rights.
1). MLB is a private business. As a private business it is allowed to make its own rules. It can set up rules that we may find to be silly, onerous or even “communistic”. However baseball conducts its internal business has nothing to do with “democracy” with a little ‘d’ or a capitol “D”.
2). As far as “..our freedom to choose..” Please see point #1. Having a MLB team or the opportunity to bid for one is not an “entitlement”, to be ensured by governmental dictate. (thank god!).
3). I just read thru the US Constitution and I couldn’t find any article or paragraph indicating that MLB “owes” San Jose a team or the opportunity to bid for a team.
4). Someone argues that the Sharks turned thousands of San Joseans into Sharks fans. Fine. What NHL hockey team did the Sharks displace in the public consciousness in coming to San Jose? The California Golden Seals? Uh, how many decades ago did they play in the bay area???
5). The Giants have been here since 1958 – and have had nearly 50 years to endear themselves to their legions of South Bay fans. Do you really believe that if the A’s moved to San Jose that significant numbers of those Giants fans would become A’s fans – just like that? Just like all of the NY Yankees fans who lived near Flushing Meadows became instant Mets fans when the expansion club showed up at the Polo Grounds in 1960??? Oh, and the Dodgers instantly lost their entire Orange County fanbase when the Angels moved to Anaheim in 1965. Right.
6). Did you flunk civics or do you generally have this muddled a view on all matters of public policy?
PS – On really important matters – ie: who represents you as mayor or city council or who your county supervisor is – yes, you do get to help determine your communities destiny. Sadly for you and those who think along your lines – baseball is not a “right” and henceforth you have no legal or moral claim to making decisions for what is essentially a private business.
Reading Stone’s reasonable commentary, I feel that the majority of reactions to it represent a real blot on this blog.
Mark C.,
You know, you are 100% right! I must have flunked civics…shame on me for thinking that our national pastime belonged to the people of this great nation. I should have known better; baseball is about greedy owners and out of control capitalism, not the people. I shoud have also learned that a city of almost 1 million residence doesn’t have the right to pursue its own MLB franchise. Shame on me for believing in the ideals that I grew up with and fought for in the military. By the way, your post feeds in perfectly for my arguments against the Giants COMMUNIST (don’t you love that word?) territorial rights to San Jose. P. Magowans main argument against a MLB team moving to San Jose is that “we can’t have a team move into our territory and start appealling to our fans and corporate sponsors.” If you are a Giants fan living in the South Bay, you will remain a Giants fan if a MLB team plays in San Jose or not…you said it yourself Mark! There are enough A’s fans in San Jose and the greater Bay Area to support a 40,000 seat ball park downtown…without hurting the Giants. As for “corporate sponsors,” living in Silicon Valley, we know that there are more than enough Fortune 500 companies to go around. In closing, don’t tell me anything about the Constitution unless you’ve served on the front lines like myself and my family.
Wow, all this blog and such garbage.
Of course this is about business. It is also about business being kept from relocating. It is also about a city’s desire to have a business. Sure there is no constitutional right. This is all about San Jose having the highest disposable income in the nation. The city wants to capitalize on that. Sounds like basic political science and economics. No one has made a good arguable point that baseball is good or bad for the city. Much like the city, the posters quivel over the use of the kings english far too much to make a good, valid point. The arguments have to be centered on good vs bad idea. To date, all of the arguments have degenerated into a pushing and shoving match, complete with name calling and lack of focus.
The point is, people in San Jose (Cortese, Stone) are trying to step out of the conservative past and move San Jose out of the dark ages. Has anyone noticed how many businesses don’t want to do business in San Jose? This is not about the like or dislike of baseball or the team in question, it is about city revenue and what we are going to do about it. Would people of San Jose be so opposed to Cisco or some other company building and bringing high profile jobs here? People usually don’t usually blink when that happens unless it is in an area reserved as “open space”.(see Coyote Valley, Almaden soccer fields and recreation center). My point is this; San jose has to step out of its conservative trappings or will be doomed to stay exactly where it is. I am not saying a ballpark will help, but it is a bold move and it is a good start. We need to bring people to San Jose. We need people to spend money in San Jose, not elsewhere.
I am a huge advocate of bringing baseball to San Jose. Having 3 million foks in the downtown core would be a huge positive economic impact to downtown. This is our last chance to make this happen so we need to make sure that the “A” team is leading the charge. To this end, those of us on the outside need to have faith that a well thought out plan is in place, milestones are established, key relationships are being fostered and that the plan is being executed upon. I appreciate all of those who are involved and who are playing a role in advocating MLB in San Jose and I sincerely hope that a broad group of key influencers, both politcal and business, are sitting together in the same room, developing a winning strategy, and working together to execute upon it.
If you dropped in from outer space and knew nothing about anything except for SJ’s track record on recent big projects in SJ (BART, airport exp., new CH) would you be inclined to support baseball?
Ask the people in Oakland if they’d like to move back to the dark ages. ie pre-getting the Raiders the second time.
L.G.G.,
I’ll give you S.J.‘s poor track record on the new City Hall $$, but BART and the Airport expansion? BART thus far has been the victim of a huge drop off in tax revenue (the economy), while the Airport has been the victim of post-9/11 travel patterns…you really can’t blame those on the city’s track record. Also, please don’t compare Oakland to San Jose….we can make a stadium deal work for everybody! Thank you.
If there are so many a’s fans in san jose area, then why is it that they don’t go up to oakland to see them play now and why don’t they listen to them on the radio or watch them on tv? Based on tv and radio ratings I’ve seen, the vast, vast majority of baseball fans in the south bay (and most of the bay area for that matter) support the Giants. Their ratings are much, much higher than the a’s, especially in SF, the penninsula and the south bay. These are facts I’d that are indisputable. So to me, it’s not a slam dunk that the a’s would see an increase in attendance if they were to move south. South bay Giants fans would not switch allegiances and I do believe you’d lose many of the east bay fans. So San Jose would be stuck with tax payer subsidy debacle like is the case with the Raiders in Oakland. I agree with the other posters here who say this is a complete waste of time as MLB will never allow the a’s to move into a pre-defined territory of another team. The Expos situation was entirely different as DC was not a declared territory of the Orioles as well as the fact that MLB owned the Expos and were anxious to unload the team.
Give it up, Stone, Gonzalez, et al and focus on real issues impacting San Jose.
Lets see…..go to Oakland and promote our cause there. Nope, not suicidal. Okay, just go to games, hmmmmmmm, support Oakland as they try to build a larger fan base and stay in Oakland……not dumb either.
The bay area media market…..decidedly San Francisco. The A’s flagship is in SAN JOSE! Minor league team in the south bay…..Giants, not A’s, plus the Giants have a trendy park that makes them fashionable. Turn the media market away from its SF centricity and you don’t have a territory ruled by SF. Just for the record, San Jose is NOT San Francisco. I don’t see the Giants cutting a check to San Jose for it being their territory. Nor do I see SF making improvements to Muni Stadium.
The rest is speculative junk. “i believes” and “to me’s” are just that. Disputable at best.
This is a big revenue possibility. Give it up? Dream on. Too much money involved here. It is at the core of the city’s belief that we have to build and grow. This fits in with that plan very well, thank you.
If it happens, Giants fans will just have to live with the A’s being in San Jose. If A’s fans are FANS, they will travel the 40 minutes to come see them, just like San Joseans did for years.
I moved to San Jose in 1969 from New York to attend San Jose State University. Both the city and the university have made a quantum leap in a forward direction with the emphasis on forward. There is no comparison between now and then, the area has metamorphosed from an agrarian to a high tech economy. In those days the downtown was inexisting and now it is beginning to have life. Things will not happen overnight i.e. billion dollars projects are not going to materilize overnight but things are moving in the right direction. Does anyone remember the area before: the convention center, Fairmont, Hilton, remodeled Sainte Claire and De Anza, Marriot, Adobe, HP Pavilion, Tech museum, Opera San Jose, San Jose Reportoire, CPA, Children Discovery Museum and that is only the downtown area. What about all those businesses and hotels by the airport?. Has anyone taken a ride up the Silvercreek area with the $ 1 million plus homes? What about all the golf courses that we have around here? When I was attending San Jose State, there was one parking garage now there four. The engineering building double in size. The guy who made the comment that our libraries don’t have books on the shelf, has not visited the MLK library which is shared by the city and university. In the early seventies there wasn’t an Event Center, School of Business, student union nor a student village which is scheduled to open soon. The Hayes mansion was a dilapidated shack and now is the jewel of south San Jose. What about our wide streets with manicured medians? What about the remodeled Valley Fair and Oakridge malls and Santana Row? So please no more negatives about San Jose. It is a nice place to live. One more comment about San Jose State, I know that there are a lot of people out there that feel that it is a second rate school but no one gives credit where credit is due. Often it is referred to as a commuting school, well that is not so bad because people can attend classes and work at the same time. Getting an education at San Jose State does not cost an arm and a leg, therefore one can stretch the time by attending part time and working. I can’t find a better combination for someone who is trying to get an education, raise a family and work at the same time.
Be thankful with what you have!!!
Mr. Rowen,
As one of thousands of SJSU alumni residing in the Bay Area, perhaps we should show up at Spartan football games and support the school ourselves rather than bother the Mayor for money. Amazing, 19 responses to Mr. Stones great blog, and the only positive posts have come from myself…thank God you guys (and perhaps gals) don’t represent the populace. And if you’re a citizen of San Jose, shame on you for kissing up to Frisco and belittling our MLB efforts! By the way Fred J., how many Sharks fans were there in San Jose before they set up camp back in the early 90’s? My point? Bring the A’s to S.J. and our sports fans will pack the joint! By the way, there are A’s fans in the South Bay…as well as Alameda, CoCo, San Benito, and Santa Cruz County. A region with 7.1 million people can easily support two 40,000 seat ballparks and their franchises. Lastly, the Giants territorial rights aren’t etched in stone…they can be changed by MLB owners vote or, if necessary, challenged in a court of law. How could anyone from S.J. even give credence to the communistic rights of the Giants? WHERE’S THE POSITIVITY ON THIS BLOG!?
Here we go again. Let’s stick it to the taxpayers foran expensive stadium for a stupid game for people who do not have anything useful to do.
Don’t tell me the taxpayers won’t get stuck with paying for it either. Look at all the sweetheart deals for statiums -including the SJ Arena. Tell the people of Oakland what a great deal they got on their stadium and the Raiders’ contract.
We do not need any more sports teams in SJ. They are expensive, a waste of time and resources, and draw organized crime and drug pushers.
Why not play a game instead of paying to watch others?
There is such a thing as antitrust. It was meant to dismantle monopolies. Yes government can and does regulate business in all kinds of ways. Remember way back to the steroid scandal and hearings? I know that was a while ago, but the government did intervene. How about Curt Flood. There are many others that have chipped away at the exemption. Cast your mind back a little. Baseball has always been regulated to some degree by our government. Sure San Jose can sue over the rights to have a team. Whether they are successful is open to debate. The antitrust exemption baseball “enjoys” is fragile and almost a hundred years old. It also only prohibits a team and its players from moving into another territory, not the city that wants one from suing for it. Envoke the clean hands doctrine, make the MLB and the Giants open their books and we will see what stake SF has in San Jose. If it isn’t substantial, those rights will be overturned.
Just for the record, territory includes 100 square miles and DC was tecnically Baltimore territory, it was just conveniently left out of regulation so there could be another eastern seaboard team. Funny how that works.
ps- I really enjoyed your comments, Sam. I feel the same way. I am tired of people knocking the city they live in but do nothing but complain about it. Constructive criticism is fine, so is a good argument. But this complaining is going nowhere. Try doing it at a community meeting.
Ron Gonzales needs to make sure the Earthquakes stay in town, not chase a baseball team that will never come.
Norm, so the deciding factor is you are a giants fan. No matter what you say it will come back to that. Thought so.
We had better pull our heads out and do something for this city. Doing patchwork community projects does nothing for the economy. We are still going to have deficit. Leave your allegiance to your sports team elsewhere and support where you own your home and your children go to school. We are overrun by transportation projects. Housing without jobs is suicide for a city who is cutting police and fire. Companies don’t want to do business here with such strict regulation and little entertainment. Build the ballpark, lure business, build homes, create jobs, earn tax money from the downtown revenue for the schools. What do you people not understand about city revenue. There is very little and we have no other plan to make more. It involves luring people and businesses. The ballpark will help that.
Having moved to San Jose in 1966 going to downtown San Jose was never even considered. I started working in downtown SJ in 1983 and 20 years later it was still a ghetto.
The transformaton of downtown San Jose over the last 20 years has been remarkable. Even though I live in Los Gatos now and no longer work in downtown San Jose my family and I spend a considerable amount of our entertainment dollars downtown- sports, concerts, plays, tech and childrens discovery museum, and great restaurants are just a few of the ways to do this.
This transformation over the past 20 years is because leaders like T. McEnery had a vision for what could be rather than what was.
Its time for the “silent majority” to step up to the plate and let their voice be heard about San Jose as a great city that continues to get better. Adding the downtown ballpark which will bring an additional 3 million folks annually into the downtown core spending their dollars makes economic sense.
This same type of vision and leadership that was shown in the late 80’s and 90’s is needed to make sure we don’t miss this opportunity. Regardless of if you are a Giants, or other team fan have some pride in your city and look beyond your own narrow preferences to see the benefits of having a local team in downtown San Jose.
This is the bay area. Loads of fortune 500 companies. It is possible to privately finance a ballpark. SF’s China Basin was once in a bad neighborhood. Business moved in and it is now a nice place to visit.
Bad neighborhoods are not caused by ballparks. East side SJ and Palo Alto don’t have stadiums or ballclubs. They are caused by neglect and poor city planning. It is the city that allows low rent districts near stadiums, not ballclubs. There goes the theory of organized crime and drug pushers.
What would be a waste of time is not exploring this for the revenue it could bring. Think about this from the city’s perspective. What would you do to escape deficit? Tax more, cut resources like police, fire, city workers? I don’t think so. No one here brings up where money will come from. At least the city is trying to do something about it. Everyone here has no viable alternative to a sports venue for revenue.
From a Baseball fan, really!
OK – So I have season tickets to the Giants. And, no, I don’t mind driving 45 minutes (on average) to SF to watch baseball. Yes, I have never been really keen on the As. Don’t know many in the South Bay (except Larry) who even like the As. I truly, truly hate them. Strong word, yes, but it’s just baseball.
But all that put aside, the guestion is “Could San Jose really support a national league baseball team?”.
I want to say YES! My heart says YES!. But my mind, knowing everything about this Valley, says No. The fact is I’m a Giants fan. I would rather drive 45 minutes to SF to see the Giants than drive 20 minutes to see the As. Like I said, I really hate them.
What we are missing in this conversation is Fan Loyalty. I have been a Giants fan sense probably before I was born. That will not change because the As are next door.
That is only one problem. The other obvious problem is the poor track record of San Jose has in supporting major or minor leaque teams.
You know, you can be a great center of power, and still not buy into the commercial sports franchise thing!. Really it’s true. If not, then we’re all in a lot of trouble. Becaue that really isn’t all that important, right?’
Now, let’s talk about housing, transportation, and jobs.
NK
I’m with Norm as I think are the majority of baseball fans in the south bay. We’d much rather drive up 280 45 minutes to a beautiful park in a beautiful city to support the team we love than drive 20 minutes to see a team we despise. This has nothing to do with civic pride. You don’t change team allegiance just because another team wants to move into your team’s pre-defined territory. The A’s current owner as well as prior owner bought into the team with his eyes wide open knowing full well of the Giants territorial rights to the south bay. The commissioner is dead set against changing this. Can you imagine other owners like the Yankees or Mets being asked to approve a team invading the Giants’ territory? This would open up New York City to a potential 3rd team. This just isn’t going to happen folks.
I’d love to comment, but my VIP beer pass at the San Jose Giants let’s me get my first beer for free. Day 2 of the San Jose Giants home games, in case anyone’s counting.
Major League baseball isn’t about baseball. We’ve got that, and it’s fun, and it’s convenient, and you can sit ten feet from the players.
Major League baseball helps to make San Jose a destination, a place to live, and a culture. Some of us have noticed a slight drop off in business, and perhaps a small amount of hotel vacancy, and tourism in the last few years. We’re wondering how to get it all back.
Maybe, just maybe, it would be nice to have some national recognitiion (beyond the Silicon Valley Classic Football game – oh, wait!) some T.V. exposure, and something that helps sell the City.
Got to go. Do you think it looks silly if a grown guy brings a mitt to a minor league game for foul balls?
Sadly nothing but simple minds post here. Rather pour moneyinto SF than your hometown. Really sickening. Later…..much!
I wonder want brand of car Jim drives? If its a Ford or Chevy, I will be very impressed and tip my hat off to him.
For myself, I drive a big GM SUV half the time and a Porsche that gets less gass mileage the rest of the time. Why, because they are the best in their class.
But this is not about where the money goes, as Jim would have us believe.
Do you really believe that a good portion of your money spent at SBC sits in San Francisco? Do you think that it’s air you’re are breathing?
No—this is big time commercial stuff. Enjoy the game as you would MTV, or Monday night football and don’t worry too much about following the cash-flow, it’ll just spoil the fun.
However, if you are into following the cash-flow, then there some great websites that will instruct you on investing your retirement benefits.
Sorry, Larry—I’m just not an As fan.
However, I’ll always retain my right to change my mind and buy season tickets to the As when and if that ever happens!
Hey, I love it, but its just a game.
Norm
Hi Norm and JackN,
I guess we don’t have to worry about you guys attending San Jose A’ games, and sounding by your strong dislike for the A’s, it works better for all of us. I don’t know where this HATE is coming from. Have the A’s punished you or have they subjected you to public humiliation? You are free to drive wherever you want, but don’t drive and hate at the same time or you might have an accident. You act as if it is a sacrilige to be a fan of another team while living in San Jose. Remember that before 1958 there weren’t any teams (baseball) in California. Now there are A’s, Angels, Padres, Dodgers and yes your beloved San Francisco Giants. I moved here from New York and yes I follow the Yankees but I do not worship them. You know what? If San Jose does get the A’s and when they play the Yankees I will root for the A’s. That might be a surprise for you but that the way it goes. What is with territorial rights, does it means that I can not open a car dealership on Stevens Creek, a sandwich shop next to Taco Bell on Blossom Hill or a Gentlemen Club next to the Pink Poodle on Bascom? How would you feel if Pete Magowan for any reason and he does not have to provide any, decides to build a ball park in Las Vegas and move the Giants there and Bud Selig allows the Dodgers to move in SBC, now you are the territorial rights of the Dodgers???? Please let me know. Please neither of you start to pontificate on how absurd my previous statement is. I only made to point out how absurd the whole territorial right is. Owners get together to slice the pie just like the feudal lords under the rule of the king did in the Dark Ages. Thanks.
Sam, you need to wake up to the facts. I don’t care how absurd you think the territorial rights are or how you think the owners act in an unfair way. It just doesn’t matter. MLB is not subject to anti-trust rules so they can do as they please and these are just the facts. I’m a realist and know that it is very very unlikely that Selig will get the other owners to over-turn established territorial rights of one team so that another can move into it’s area. This opens up a whole can of worms that other owners would not want in their territories. You can root all you want for your little a’s but I’m afraid you’ll have to do it while they’re in oakland for a few more years and then you’ll have to take a short plane trip to vegas to see them.
Jack:
The same MLB owners that you are referring to voted unamiously (except for Angelos) to allow the Expo’s to move into DC—-note that the DC stadium is closer to Camden Yards than SBC is to downtown San Jose—Magowan also voted for this move—-even though Angelos was against it—
Bottom line is the owners will do what ever makes economic sense- $14M going to the A’s in 2004 because they are a small market team in Oakland doesn’t make alot of sense-
In terms of Vegas—-just what baseball needs after their steriod flap—-to locate in a team and Vegas and have all of the gambling issues that go with it—fact or perception—no other major sport is willing to be exposed to those risks—
Bottom line is that the A’s are not my number one team either—-but no one is going to restrict you from making the drive up to SF to see the Giants—-you still will have a choice—but so will alot of other folks, including myself, who would enjoy having MLB within a 20 minute drive—-regardless of who the team is.
SanJose – what Jack said is true – territorial rights are very difficult to over-turn. The Expos situation is very different from the A’s. Remember that the Expos were without a home, owned by other MLB owners that were desperate for a new venue/ownership for the team, and most importantly, the Orioles did not in fact have territorial rights over DC. This was not a precedent setting event in that MLB did not over-turn pre-defined territories of another team. Can you imagine the Yankees or Mets voting in favor of the A’s moving into the Giants territory? This would theoretically open up NYC to a 3rd team! This just isn’t going to happen. We can get worked up all we want and hope for a team in San Jose, but I’m convinced the only team in San Jose will continue to be the Giants minor league affiliate – the SJ Giants.
Q. Why do we need MLB?
A. I tend to think it’s because the southbay is walking around with a ‘little sister’ cloud following close behind. If only we get a MLB team – then we’re sure to get respect.
We have the SJ Giants – build a nice little stadium for them and let’s have some fun. They do outstanding promotions, you don’t bust your wallet to take the family to a game, and you don’t have to deal with the hyper-bloated egos that are MLB players and owners.
(Make the stadium reflect the history of SJ while we’re at it)
There’s something to be said for being quirky and irreverent. It’s more fun and not nearly as expensive as trying to out do SF at every turn.
Harry-
Lots of ways to take care of the territorial rights issue where you work with Magowan and the Giants on the solution—-you really think that that Magowan would turn down $50M? I don’t—-in fact that was a figure that he had thrown out at one time- once again—MLB pays the A’s $14M/year as a small market team- send the $14M to Magowan for 3-4 years after the A’s move to San Jose and no longer need the subsidy-
This is Silicon Valley—our culture doesn’t assume that things can’t be done or won’t happen—-those that want baseball locally, regardless of if your an A’s fan or not, need to adopt that mentallity—-I’ll bet you that Lew Wolffe has that mentality—-
Regarding the San Jose Giants minor team—not much of an economic impact for the city with 200-300 thousand fans a year v. 3M if the A’s move to San Jose.
San Jose – “do I think Magowan would turn down $50M?” Yes, in fact I do. Nothwithstanding the fact that he’s stated on numerous times that he’d turn down this amount, let’s look at simple math, shall we? If you figure that the Giants might stand to lose 15% of their paying customers (who come from the south bay) this amounts to 500K fans (15% x 3.2M). 500K fans at an average dollar spent at the ballpark of approx $50 = $25M annually. Add to that lower advertising fees (due to lower south bay content), and lower ratings and you can now see that your $14M for 3 or 4 years is nothing more than chump change in the big picture. Try $40M or so ANNUALLY for the next 10 or 15 years if you want to even get a conversation going. Too rich for the A’s? Thought so. Now you can see why there’s no way the a’s go to sj.
So Harry-
A couple points—-first the A’s are already here so moving to San Jose doesn’t create a “new market”- how many of the East Bay fans and corporations would head over to SBC because now it is closer—-
But lets assume your number are in range rather than dispute them—-then explain to me why the owners allowed the Expo’s to move to DC and create this financial hardship for Angelos and the Orioles?
Remember- Giant territorial rights were afforded in 1991/92 as part of the failed stadium initiative at that time—-
What Magowan has to weigh is the opportunity to get $50M to help pay off his stadium costs vs. playing hardball and assuming that he can force the A’s to leave the bay area. He might be better off negotiating to get his $50M and have a stadium 50 plus miles away rather than have a stadium in his view across the bay in Oakland—
It is absolutely astounding to me that in the capitol of Silicon Valley “Center of innovation” there can be so many people with a complete lack of vision.
First off I want to thank Larry Stone, the Mayor, the City Council and everyone working hard to make San Jose a even better place to live and especially trying to bring Major League baseball to this great city.
Anthony D. I could not agree with you more, you are right on the money, thank you for thoughts and especially thank you for your service to this country and defending the freedom we all enjoy.
James Rowen- you bash the city, you bash KB homes and efforts of many people to bring baseball to San Jose. You must be one of those people who oppose progress or development of any kind. With this old school mentality you will fight any kind of change or progress no matter what the economic impact or how much good it will do for the majority of the population. I am sure you are one of those people who think every little crappy building downtown is a historic treasure, instead of the obstacle to progress they usually are. Preserving History is great the Improv, Montgomery Hotel, California theatre etc. But progress is a necessity and cannot be stopped no matter how much you complain. I.e. The ridiculous fight that cost the city millions of dollars and delayed the construction of the City Hall parking garage that leaves over a thousand employees with no where to park. Thank you to the historical society for wasting lots of taxpayer’s money and city employees/ judge’s time with this B.S. One of the number one economic concerns we have in this valley is cost of housing, this is especially close to my heart because I love San Jose; just graduated from college but am not sure how I would ever afford a home hear. So in my opinion the more homes we build the better. We need to make it easier for developers to build residential units not harder especially Hi-Rises downtown.
Sam – I completely agree with your post as well it seems like majority of the people in this forum have a lot of complaints but no viable solutions. It is nice to hear some positive things about our home as well. Part of the reason homes are so expensive hear is it is great place to live, wonderful weather, lots of entertainment and cultural activities, safest big city in America year after year, and lots of economic opportunity. If you were to read this website from a foreign country you would think San Jose is East Oakland.
I just graduated from St. Mary’s College in the East Bay, which was wonderful experience but I definitely prefer the south bay. I live in Downtown and it is a great place to be especially now. I have lots of friends who went to San Jose State and many that still do. It is a great school and getting better every year. With the help of Bill Wash , they appointed a new AD director Tom Bowen who if you read the MN Sports section yesterday appears to be doing a great job. Dick Tomey the new football coach seems to be a great catalyst for the program, and the same for the new basketball coach. The Campus Village, the new Library and the expanding connection between the university and downtown all are great things for the future of the school. St. Mary’s no longer has a football team so we go and support San Jose State. We go to a number of games every season, which are most of the time very exciting events one way or another. I grew up downtown in the 80’s/90’s and watch it turn from one of the worst drug/bum ridden slums in the bay area to now one of biggest up and coming sub markets in California. You brought up some excellent points about remembering what downtown was like before tech museum, discovery museum, the Hilton, Fairmount, and most importantly the Arena. It is kind of funny how today you can barely find anyone who did not vote in favor of the Arena. The San Jose Arena has been a tremendous success and had a huge economic impact on DTSJ. Just look at the streets before and after Sharks, Sabercats, Stealth games and the numerous concerts and other events held their every year. The prestige and civic pride it brings to San Jose, and for those of us who don’t want to sit around the house and play scrabble all day with their hippie friends it is a excellent source of entertainment. According to the business journal it is one of the quantitatively most busy arenas in the country as well…. 2nd or 3rd in the nation if my memory is correct.
Sorry I had to break my comments into two post……….
Which goes back to Gina’s point, “We had better pull our heads out and do something for this city. Doing patchwork community projects does nothing for the economy. We are still going to have deficit. Leave your allegiance to your sports team elsewhere and support where you own your home and your children go to school.” ….Exactly!!!!!!!
A Baseball Stadium in downtown would be a huge success for the city and the team. The Bay area is a definitly a two team market so why not locate the two teams in the two largest cities spread out over a larger geographical area instead right across the bay from each other. That way a larger number of people can attend games. There are 7.1 million plus people in the Bay Area it is one of the largest media markets in the country 4th or 5th, there should be two teams to serve the market. Tell me how 3 million fans a year in downtown is a bad thing. . Just imagine all of the excitement and intensity you have at a sharks games with over twice as many people. Look how many people park in the free lots downtown, eat dinner go to the bars and then walk to the game. The preferred stadium site is right next to all of the public transportation at the main Diridon Station, light rail, Cal-Train and in the future BART and possible hi-speed rail. It would fit perfectly with the Arena Diridon strategic plan developed by the Redevelopment Agency. San Jose is the third largest city in the state soon to be 10th in the nation it is an ideal market for a baseball team. It is time for San Jose to step up to plate and think big. This is last opportunity to get baseball team and we cannot mess this up. To be a international city you need to have a diversity of events and one of those pieces of the puzzle is major league sports. I applaud the cities effort and will volunteer and do everything I can to help.
No books on the shelves which library did you go to “Twice read books”, try the beautiful MLK library down the street. The baseball stadium would not effect library service don’t have coronary over a none issue.
San Jose is a great city to live in and we deserve a baseball team.
The Giants screwed themselves with the 100 % private financing but keep in mind the time period in which this deal transpired the height of the .Com era. No one in their right mind would do that today Washington D.C. is a good example. The Giants have one of the highest revenue streams and attendance in baseball yet they can’t turn profit because of all their debt. I have no doubt that the Giants will ultimately do well in S.F. and SBC but as soon as Bonds retires and attendance drops a little watch the Giants team salary drop accordingly and just like the 49ers prepare for a few years of unmitigated crap. As a taxpayer I would be enraged if the city passed up this opportunity it has to be mutually beneficial deal and there is any region in the world to be innovative and get done the right way it is Silicon Valley. Just imagine the world series in Downtown San Jose
I suspect most of these nay Sayers will change their minds when they see what a success baseball in San Jose will be. The fact of the matter is the A’s are not going to stay in Oakland and if the team is to stay in the Bay Area Downtown San Jose is the only logical choice, and the best choice in the nation.
Being an international city is a great goal. Forgive me, but I can’t recall the professional sports teams in Paris, London, or other major international cities.
BTW – Hear is here and their is there
I’m logging off this site now, leaving you to your delusional thoughts. Have fun dreaming of baseball in san jose, but when you wake up go over to muni stadium and root root root for the Giants (SJ) …
Yeah they do its called soccer
I hope Harry P. isn’t a citizen of our Great City of San Jose…if he is, may the future season ticket holder of “A’s Park at Diridon Yards” forgive him.
To Norm’s post, originally posted
Sunday, April 24 at 08:18 PM:
Cash flow? So spending money at local restaurant doesn’t benefit the downtown area? People that come to the downtown hotels don’t affect the city? Hmmmmmm, I thought with increased business downtown the city could tax the downtown for increased revenue. I also thought that a hotel tax was already in place. I guess we are all dilusional to think baseball could bring the downtown businesses some money!!! What a laugher. I have two domestic and two import cars myself. I would like to see baseball in San Jose. I am not a baseball fan, I am a fan of San Jose that hopes this city will stop being so conservative and make more bold moves like this.
Ummmmmm……..There is pro baseball all over Europe and the world.
Paris, France has professional baseball: http://www.ifrance.com/patriots/
And the earliest form of baseball was developed in England in the 1800’s. Ever hear of the BBF (British Baseball Federation)?
Baseball is now an olympic sport.
Baseball is played worldwide by pony and little leagues and there are world championships.
Baseball is international. So is soccer….sorry….futbol.
Long way to go to make a point, but baseball would draw people from all over to San Jose. We are expanding our international airport for a reason….future business and tourism. Quality sports, arts and entertainment in general will make this city a good tourist spot. Increased revenue will help build this city. ‘Nuff said.
I keep trying, but I can’t figure out why anybody would come to SJ except for business or to visit family. I can’t see it now or in the future as any kind of a tourist destination.
I’m sure many of you will tell me what I am missing, but I can’t see it.
Well as I see it, Hiz Onerous Mr. Gonzales will cry real tears when he must tell the people of San Jose that,” I really tried to get a major league baseball team into that site but, since I couldn’t, welcome to KB Home “. By the way they want to donate a “little money” to my next campaign. By the way gang, KB Home stock is doing very well. Check it out. ( and I like them)
baseballsanjose.com enough said
Bryant,
I completely agree with what you have said. Very well stated.
It’s only a matter of time that the San Jose naysayers will be forced to eat crow when the City finally lands the A’s in a downtown stadium.