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Tom McEnery is an author, businessman and teacher. He was Mayor of San Jose and has lived in the city all his life—so far. His column appears on Wednesdays. He can be e-mailed at tom@sanjoseinside.com.

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Check out this article from San Jose Inside: Title: A Needless Battle? /sji/blog/entries/971

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A Needless Battle?

Posted by Tom McEnery on Wednesday, December 12, 2007

There is the fundamental question that often comes to the fore in the political life of a representative: Do you vote what you think is right or do you vote the will of your constituents? Madison Nguyen is caught in this situation. According to news reports this week, 2,000 people attended a meeting and rally on the naming of the Little Saigon/Saigon Business District.

Tempers and feelings are running very high on this issue and I can only imagine, having been in the center of such storms a few times, how the pain must be registering with Madison Nguyen. It has to be excruciating.

I wonder if there is a middle ground. The councilwoman was so correct when she said that the issues of gang violence, affordable housing, economic opportunities and good schools all trump this naming issue. She spoke in logical, City-Hall terms. That is not the question here; in this one the heart and the memory are involved.

We have entered a very different realm. It is a place where the emotions and injuries of many years past are the issues to be debated. This is harsh but true. I touched on this last week when I wrote about some of these feelings that were evident at the Tom Hayden visit of 1987.

There will be a tendency to hold firm. There will be strong advice not to give in to those who try and intimidate you. To this I say that one person’s intimidation can be another’s proper and intense protest. It is often in the eye of the observer, but the challenge for the city now is to be measured, principled and, above all, wise. I hope there is some common ground.

There has to be a place where the trauma and waste of a recall will be avoided. Don’t get me wrong, I do not think that one would be successful, yet one can measure success with difficulty. But failure for District 7, Nguyen and San Jose can be clearly delineated. It comes with the name “recall.”

Posted by Tom McEnery on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 05:00 AM

Comments

The answer is an easy one.
SELL THE NAMING RIGHTS.
There’s a ton of money behind this recall threat.
That, you can take to the bank.

D.O.A.

Posted by D.O.A.
Wednesday, December 12 at 07:27 AM
Is it possible that Madison Nguyen is just not very good at understanding politics? I personally don’t care about the area name, so I watch this unfold without bias but I can see she underestimated her opposition which is not a good attribute for a politician.

Posted by From the Peanut Gallery
Wednesday, December 12 at 08:58 AM
After some reflection, I am willing to say that Council Member Madison Nguyen may have voted her conscience and should be given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Tom is right, and it is hard to be a elected official these days. Consider Pat Mahan. After the head of a political action committee, known as Santa Clara Plays Fair, blasted Mahan for attending a conference in Bali on global warming, Michele Ryan actually went before the Santa Clara City Council last night and claimed that no one of the council realized that the stadium would be flooded due to the tides of the San Francisco Bay due to global warming. So maybe Madison Nguyen should be given the benefit of the doubt as she is confronted with people as irrational as Michele Ryan was in Santa Clara last night when she said the stadium near the bay would be flooded and thousands would suffer. Hey, Michele, just like the wackos attacked Madison, you forget the facts. Guess where Monster Park is located?

Posted by James Rowen
Wednesday, December 12 at 09:32 AM
Through all of this, I have been waiting for a calm and reasonable member of the Vietnamese community to advise why the name must be “Little Saigon” and why “Saigon Business District” is so unacceptable. Maybe I could relate to the passion around this issue if someone could explain why “Saigon Business District” is so unpalatable to so many. Isn’t “Saigon” the piece of the name that matters?

Currently my feeling is that the Vietnamese community is being completely unreasonable, their behavior at the Council meeting was way out of line and disrespectful, and they need to understand that NO particular demographic group should ever assume they have their Council representative in their hip pocket.

Until I hear a logical reason why “Saigon Business District” should not be the name for this stretch of Story Road, I will consider any recall effort as nothing more than sour grapes. Not much of a foundation for a recall but apparently we are dealing with fanatics here. Should a recall effort go the distance, I can only hope that the non-Vietnamese voters in D7 turn out in droves to defeat it and send a message to the Vietnamese community in D7 that they are not living in a vacuum. The Vietnamese community is effectively shooting itself in the foot with this, and could lose their representation on the council as their fellow D7 residents likely aren’t too keen on having one segment of their district feeling like they own their Council representative and are entitled to special treatment, and will not be inclined to vote for a Vietnamese candidate again.

So, can anyone provide some logic around why the Vietnamese community cannot stomach “Saigon Business District” and can anyone advise why the Council didn’t simply say OK fine to “Little Saigon” and get on with other business? It seems to make a much bigger difference to the Vietnamese community than it does to the rest of the citizens of SJ so why did the Council collectively decide to develop a spine on this (non) issue? These are the thoughts that were being expressed in my household as we watched the circus on channel 26 last month.

Posted by Mark T
Wednesday, December 12 at 09:43 AM
I never saw anyone on the side of “Saigon/Vietnamese Business District” in the first place. Were there actually people backing this name? What was their reasoning? All I ever read about are the angry ones who wanted Little Saigon.

Posted by Nam Turk in Eastside
Wednesday, December 12 at 10:12 AM
An unnecessary diversion from focusing on the problems of San Jose. Instead of fixing the structural deficit, paving roads, beefing up public safety, we have to waste energy on something that happened thirty years ago and twelve thousand miles away.

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 10:39 AM
Assimilate or become irrelevant.

Democracy does not mean one rule by populism.

Majority Rule, Minority Rights.

Posted by 400WING in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 11:02 AM
I was invited to attend the Sunday meeting of 2,000 Vietnamese Americans, and I learned a lot...especially about the continuing interest of the current Vietnamese government in this process. It put out a news release hours after the San Jose City Council made a preliminary step in June 2007.

It’s wrong to scoff at the interest of District 7 in this matter until all the facts are on the table. Neither the Merc nor the Metro (both of which were present) have written about the underlying issues, preferring to insult and denigrate those who care about it.

Now that City Hall has painted itself into a non-negotiable corner on the naming, what else can the residents of District 7 do, except appeal to the City Charter which lays out recall as the cure for non-responsive elected officials.

This is democracy at work, and it should be given a fair chance. The best thing would have been to let District 7 vote on the name; the next best thing would be to let District 7 vote on the namer.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 11:13 AM
This never should have come before the council in thie first place. It is an issue that should have been debated and resolved by the businesses involved. The only reason I can discern that it was presented to the council was that if the name were official, the city would pay for the signs instead of the business owners paying for the signs. Someone wanted a “freebie”.

Even white middle class me knows and understands that there are at least two factions in our vietnamese communities, just as there are pro-Castro and anti-Castro Cubans in Miami, who still hate and disttrust each other. As a Vietnamese-American, Ms. Nguyen of all people should have understood this, and vetted this entire subject before she brought it to the council.

Once the genie was out of the bottle, this senseless and unnecessary exercise was doomed to failure. But it sure diverts attention from more vital issues that the mayor and council seem unable to resolve either.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 11:45 AM
Tom,
You asked a very interesting question, “Do you vote what you think is right or do you vote the will of your constituents? “

I hope you will respond to this question, What do you think Madison did? Do you think her refusal to listen to this out cry comes from stubbornness, her pride, or do you think she really did try and compromise by choosing a name she thought was fair to everyone?
In her TV interviews on the recall, she looks pretty stubborn, and makes comments that sound a bit arrogant at times, so I’m not sure.
I was at that Council Meeting. There were thousands of people there, not just one thousand! The Hispanic groups wanted the name the Council voted on. I also listened to the group wanting the name “Little Saigon.” They want that name because it represents freedom from communism. The pain of communism running them out of their own country here to the US is very real to these people, and “Little Saigon” is more of a symbol of victory, peace and freedom, then just a name to them. I personally think the Council should reconsider the name Little Saigon because the truth is Tom; the survey results from the RDA, showed a “majority” voted for that name. I don’t favor special interests getting what they want either, but I can sure as hell tell you that the democratic process on this issue was NOT followed! And it is NOT the first time this Council has ignored the majority on an issue.
In answer to your question Tom, no elected official should ever decide what is best for the people, if they are being told by the majority of the people, what they want. What happens to you guys when you get in there? Is there something in the water at City Hall that turns you guys deaf, dumb, and arrogant? We elect you, we campaign for you, we donate to you, and we vote for you, we expect you to represent us. We don’t expect you to follow your own agenda, or someone else’s!
One major point you did not cover in either of your columns on this Tom is that people are angry that the City, at the cost of taxpayers, did a survey, and the Mayor and Council ignored the results of that survey, and chose to go with a name “they” thought was best. They didn’t stop there though; several Council Members had the nerve to insult members of the Vietnamese Community by lecturing them on their behavior toward Madison. People have every right to be angry and say so, if they feel betrayed. I found these lectures by these Council Members on appropriate behavior pretty hypocritical, given that they ignored the will of the people as a whole, and ignored the result of a taxpayer’s survey! I mean, what the hell was the point of doing a survey if you are going to ignore the outcome?

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 12:46 PM
San Jose Inside is about San Jose, not other cities like Santa Clara politics

If non San Jose residents like Rowan comment about other cities - do it somewhere else like Rowan’s blog

Posted by Rowan's off topic comments
Wednesday, December 12 at 01:40 PM
#11 don’t panic. The oddball political issues of that strange corner of the world known as Santa Clara aren’t raised here by JR very often. You should have been here in the beginning when his incoherent posts were coming through fast & furious all day long. Count your blessings.

Posted by Mark T
Wednesday, December 12 at 02:08 PM
#11, rowen isn’t let out too often. He be backed behind closed doors before long.

Posted by Rowen is a nut
Wednesday, December 12 at 02:15 PM
We are at a crossroad where exercising our right to be heard must necessarily involved the process of recall.

Unlike the Mercury News depiction lately of the Vietnamese community in San Jose, we are not a few anti"democratic"troublemakers that are in the minority of this “Little-Saigon” naming process. What we represent is an immigrant group that is grateful to be here. After 32 years of rebuilding our lives in San-Jose for most of us, we are enormously proud to participate in the democratic process of government that was lacking in our homeland. The Vietnamese-American principles have always been one of self-reliance and community-participation. We give back to our community by always raise the funds ourselves to take care of our community’s non-profits and any shortcomings in our homeland like natural-disasters, families-in-needs,etc.. We rarely ask the City-of-San Jose for financial support for our community. What we do ask is to recognize the reasons why we are here - as refugees of a Communist-regime. Many of us suffered enormously as the result of the war and have emotional scars to show for it. Therefore, we have only “symbols” that embody our stances and define us for our core values here in our new homeland. Yes, some of us are defiance and clinging on to the past. Yes, most of us of have made the transition and are Americanized. But ALL of us are proud of our heritage and young or old, stand united for these symbols that are the essence of the moniker VIETNAMESE-Americans.

That is why it is so painful for one of our own, Councilmember-Madison Nguyen, to misrepresent us through the mainstream media and to twist facts to satisfy her ego and to get back at a few of her supporters-turned-critics. During my 32 years here in San Jose, the issues of our Freedom-Flag of the former-Republic-of-Vietnam and the “Little Saigon” name have been at the forefronts of all discussion of all Vietnamese households. We reminisce every April-30th the lost of our homeland. At all community events, we salute our flag alongside with the American-flag as a “symbol” of our struggles together during the war. We follow all the progresses made in our government for our old and new homelands, the U.S.A. such as the Vietnamese-Freedom-Flag-Resolutions in large cities, counties and state. We spoke glowingly like proud-parents about our first generation participation in government of first Vietnamese-State-Assembly Van Tran, first-Vietnamese-Board-of-Supervisor Janet Nguyen and our first-Vietnamese-Councilmember Madison Nguyen. We admire the economic progress of our Vietnamese entrepreneurs’ hardwork ethics that allowed us to turn “glum” areas of town like Santa-Clara St, Tully-Road, Senter-Road, and of late, Story-Road into an economic enclaves that embodies the fighting spirits of our former “Pearl-of-the-Orient”,Saigon. The many “Little Saigons” that have mushroomed across the country and other countries oversea are LOUD reminder to the government that took that name away from us in 1975- that we’re not only survived a brutal war, but we thrive under the most difficult of circumstances like displaced-families, identity crisis, new language, new homes, long prison for many of our unfortunate former soldiers, death and rape at sea to escape, and starting over with only the clothes on our backs.

I speak on behalf of a community divided, yet UNITED right now. Mr. Mayor, all this politic-ing and lobbying by Madison Nguyen over this symbolic name was an unnecessary retaliation at a few of her critics at the expense of her Vietnamese-American-community. She would have you believe against undisputable facts that our community doesn’t care one way or another about the name. She would reiterate to the press over and over again that the people that support this “Little Saigon” name is in the minority, have too much time on their hand, and she needs to represent those that works 2-3 jobs that doesn’t care for this naming issues. http://youtube.com/watch?v=3qI-GrvtS0U . Rather than taking leadership by reaching out to a community that is in pain over a sense of betrayal by the representative local government we believed in and worked hard to put in office such as her, Mayor Reed, Vice-Mayor Cortese, Sam Liccardo, Nancy Pyle, they all have chosen turned their backs on us. She and the rest of her colleagues did not come up with sensible solutions to mitigate all this anger and sorrow by our community as of this date. All we get is more politic-ing as if this is a Mayoral Race and one side is the good and the other is the dark-evil forces.

You have eloquently expressed your opinion over the years that in order for City of San Jose to grow and be a better place to live, transparency needs to be at the forefront of our City government. Anything less would destroy the very foundation of City-Hall. Yes, there are other pressing needs than renaming this merchant strip on Story Road. However, paramount to all of this is that our government needs to speak the truth, avoid all backdoor lobbying to arrive at undemocratic decisions that serve no-one well but themselves, and not punish those that disagree with their decision with further alienation and disrespect. Sounds familiar? What we are noticing from our esteemed councilwoman is that she’s actually learned too well from the last administration on how things really run at City Hall. It wasn’t the Norcal-garbage-deal nor the Grand-Prix we disagreed with, but rather the backdoor dealings to arrive at the decisions and all the cleanup afterward that we find to be abhorrent. Madison Nguyen, voted in office to replace the disgraced Terry Gregory for all his backdoor dealings, is facing her “Little Saigon scandal” and need to face all the salient facts that will be on display in the coming months. Like Gregory, she can no longer serve her constituents well and need to step down or be recalled.

Hung Bui

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 02:24 PM
I have to agree with #1, because though there are shades of meaning for the various stakeholders, at a city council level the whole decision is rather arbitrary, unless you think they should be in the business of making social and historical commentary. Setting the shades of meaning aside, they should do the best thing for the city, which is use this as an opportunity to close that deficit.

The city council should revoke its original decision and put the issue up to bid in an auction.

Announce the auction with enough notice (i.e. not the same day like the Grand Prix!) and allow all comers to pool their resources for one name or another. This would be substantially more cost effective than individuals and organizations spending money campaigning for or against a recall.

Use the proceeds to pay for the signs and all the costs underlying the special “business district.” Any excess could go toward beautifying D7, or maybe just filling D7 potholes and starting on D7’s entries on the paving backlog.

Maybe someone at eBay could help with the technological underpinnings. It’s not that hard, really.

Posted by John S. Leyba in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 02:33 PM
Dear San Jose:

One of the reasons that a recall will never get off the ground is the fact that some, perhaps many, of the people complaining about the Little Saigon issue are not San Jose residents, and cannot sign a recall petition or vote for one. I watched just a little of the city hall meeting weeks ago where some people indicated that they were from another city, but then voiced their opinion on the issue.

Nobody seems to have the guts to say what’s really going on here. What began as a sincere effort to acknowledge the successes of a particular ethnic/cultural group has accelerated into an ego clash and a turf war. No one group/ethnicity/people has the right to claim any one street/block/or section of the city as their own. All of the city belongs to all of the people.

Pete Campbell

Posted by Pete Campbell in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 03:02 PM
#10

“In answer to your question Tom, no elected official should ever decide what is best for the people, if they are being told by the majority of the people, what they want.”

You need to go back to school and retake your civics class, since you are absolutely clueless.

Theoretically, elected officials are there to do the right thing, irrespective of what the raving mobs, or the “majority” want. Whether they do or not is another story.

Are you saying that slavery should be made legal if that is what the majority wants?

One of the reasons why this country is so screwed up at this time is from Republican politicians trying to please their lunatic fringe base instead of doing what is right for the country and the world.

Posted by Not a Novice
Wednesday, December 12 at 03:28 PM
This is no longer about Madison Nguyen.

It is about tribalism versus effective Government.

We cannot let the forces of tribalism undermine our society. The attitude is currently emblemized by a silly vote on naming rights, but it is more pervasive than this. It starts with the ‘One price for my Race, One price for White Face’ business attitude, and eventually turns into corruption, nepotism, offensively partisan politics, and the fracturing of society. This is happening too often, in too many places, in this country.

Einstein ascended us all when he proclaimed himself a ‘Citizen of the World’. Holistic thinking like this is what we need.

The pain people feel is very real. But putting your pain on a billboard and parading it around town is not the way to effect change. Demonstrating that you care about what the plurality of other people think . . . like Madison Nguyen has demonstrated . . . ah, that is the way to effect change. There are way too many ‘We Demand Justice!’ movements in this world that make no attempt to define their place in the lives of everyone else.

Which reminds me: over in Santa Clara, bla bla bla . . .

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 04:00 PM
Though I personally differ with Madison Nguyen and believe that “Little Saigon” is a more appropriate naming of this business district, I don’t believe that a recall election would serve the interests of our city - especially the Vietnamese or Asian-American communities.

I will forever defend the right of our residents to recall an elected official. Yet, I believe that we should exercise this right with great responsibility and caution. Though I empathize with the frustration shared by some voters regarding the outcome of this policy debate, I feel that a recall petition should be limited to those elected officials guilty of misconduct in office, incompetence or failure to perform a prescribed duty.

If you are disappointed in Madison Nguyen’s decision, by all means, let her know about it. Write letters, make phone calls and protest outside of City Hall. But, don’t undermine our democracy by threatening to recall an elected official who is guilty only of fulfilling her legislative role.

This council seat is up for election in 2010 and I hope to see a diverse field of candidates on the ballot. Now that would be democracy in action!

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 05:04 PM
Pete at #16 says, “One of the reasons that a recall will never get off the ground is the fact that some, perhaps many, of the people complaining about the Little Saigon issue are not San Jose residents, and cannot sign a recall petition or vote for one.’

What Pete doesn’t realize is that the registered voters in D-7 from November 2006 are about 23K. Getting a recall off the ground requires collecting 12% of the registered voters’ signatures. 3,000 signatures should do nicely.

In Berryessa this summer, it took only five of us three days to collect over 1,000 signatures for the democratic election to fill a vacancy on the Berryessa school board.

While that effort was widely panned on this blog as too democratic, it seems to me that it will be a piece of cake for 3,000 signatures to be collected in D-7, and get the recall off the ground forthwith.

Notwithstanding Clark Williams #19, following the guidelines in the City Charter is not anti-democratic. It may be a rejection of City Hall Supremacy (kind of like rejecting States Rights) and uncomfortable for some officials, but it doesn’t “undermine our democracy”—it is a fulfillment of democratic principles.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 05:50 PM
#14- Hung Bui, your comments are beautifully expressed. Thank you for taking the time to come here and post them. While I do understand your pain, and I do understand your disappointment in Council Member Nguyen, recalling an elected official for this reason is not really fair, or just. Recalls were designed to protect us from politicians who steal, violate laws, and other serious offenses. Recalls are not supposed to be used to retaliate against an elected official who failed to follow through on a promise to us, or didn’t support an issue we want passed, or defeated. If that were the case, no one would be in any political office right now! Please, carefully reconsider this recall effort. If you need vindication, then the next time Madison runs for office, run against her, or support an opposing candidate.
With all due respect to you, I want to say that you live in America now, and while I agree you must continue to value and practice your own culture, and beliefs, it is important for you to assimilate and respect our cultures and laws too. Yes, you are a proud people who have done much for this country, but your old political battles don’t belong here. You have shown the corrupt government, who ran you out of your country that you are far stronger than they are by mere virtue of surviving, rebuilding, and starting better and more lucrative businesses here. You have already achieved victory, and naming a small business district carries far less significance of success, and freedom, than your ability to survive and do well here has. In America we call this taking the high road and using the old adage, “Living well is the best revenge.”

#17- Re-read my post and stop trying to compare apples and pineapples on this issue. Slavery and naming a business district by ignoring a RDA survey, are not even in the same ball park.

#18- You wrote, “This is no longer about Madison Nguyen.” You are 100 % correct about that. To me it is about ignoring a taxpayer survey that held out a certain finding, and then was ignored.

#19- Very well said. I agree with you.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 05:53 PM
Not a Novice - what I “Did” express is the problem that has plagued representative Government since the time of Edmund Burke - namely, vote your conscience, or the will of the people. I have had to make that choice. It is a choice that each and every honest elected official has to make one day - It is a tremendous moral crises for many, and while it should be easy, it rarely is. TMcE

Posted by TomMcEnery
Wednesday, December 12 at 06:10 PM
Tom,
I hope you will respond to this question, What do you think Madison did? Do you think her refusal to listen to this out cry comes from stubbornness, her pride, or do you think she really did try and compromise by choosing a name she thought was fair to everyone?
In her TV interviews on the recall, she looks pretty stubborn, and makes comments that sound a bit arrogant at times, so I’m not sure.

Tom, I thought I’d repost this question to see if you will answer it. I’m curious to see what your thoughts on this are.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 07:21 PM
#21 says, “Recalls were designed to protect us from politicians who steal, violate laws, and other serious offenses.”

I wonder if you could tell us just two things.

First, where in the Charter or Constitution can we find this limitation on the right of recall?

Second, what serious offense did Governor Grey Davis commit to put him in that category?

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 09:14 PM
Kathleen,

“…she really did try and compromise by choosing a name she thought was fair to everyone”

I totally respect your opinion and other posters’ opinions, as a civil agreement to disagree. I also expect some fallouts and misunderstandings on why the Vietnamese American has to push for the extreme of a recall when other course of action might suffice. The short answer is we have tried in vain for 6 months to meet and reaffirm her earlier promise for Little Saigon naming in District 7. Councilwoman Madison Nguyen just “blew us off” as irrelevant and insult the community as “loudmouths” that is in the minority. The fallacy that she is selling to her council colleagues and the mainstream is this mysterious “majority” Vietnamese group that unanimously backed the New Saigon and Saigon Business District. It became a running joke among the members of the community where this group came from or where they ‘re kidnapped lately and we should circulate Missing Group flyers around district 7.

But we are exercising the most fundamental ‘democratic’ method allowed by the San Jose City Charter, no different than other minority groups in particular that take offense in our elected officials in how they conduct themselves in office. If civil compromises between the community and our elected representative were not followed, aren’t we, using US history as a guide, using civil disobedience such as rallies, protests, and request for resignation and/or “recall” to make ourselves heard? Our elected officials have spoken against our community’s overwhelming request to honor the naming right to be consistent with the rest of the United States Vietnamese immigrant communities. Why can’t we now use the democratic process to speak for our behalf?

The recall effort is an answer to our harshest critic, Madison Nguyen, whereshe felt we do not matter in her district and she just need to answer to powers that be. We are the little people that get in the way of her goal and should shut up and be happy with the crumbs that she graciously endowed us with. The threat of a recall is a method to say that THE MAJORITY of the Vietnamese American in her district DO NOT agrees with her representation of our diverse needs. Obviously more facts will be disseminated in the coming weeks to prove why we felt this strong against her on her close ties with the developer of Vietnam Town, why she went against the entire community’s wishes and why all the veil of secrecy surrounding the name issue. The people that understand, thank you. The people that do not, time will tell all. In the meantime, the struggle continues..

RECALL OF COUNCIL MEMBER. To initiate proceedings for the exercise of the power of recall of a Council member elected by a District, the petition shall be signed by duly qualified electors of the District equal in number to at least twelve percent (12%) of the number of persons residing in the District eligible to vote according to the last report of registration filed by the County Registrar of Voters with the Secretary of State, which is in effect at the time the notice of intent to circulate the petition is published.

Currently there are 24,908 registered voters in District 7, 12% of that number is 2,989 - so that’s the minimum number of signatures of qualified voters it would take to get the recall on the ballot.

3,000 signatures and we will be heard….

Posted by
Wednesday, December 12 at 09:43 PM
It’s really sad for the Vietnamese people who live in and around San Jose. Really the majority do not really care if it’s named “Little Saigon” or “Saigon Business District” or even “Vietnamese Business District”.

I read in some Vietnamese Forums and they discussed a lot about this topic. And I did read one post that have some good logic in that. And I just want to lay out here. For a Vietnamese who is living in San Jose, if that person told some other Vietnamese “I will go to Little Saigon tomorrow”. All Vietnamese will know that person mean he will go to South California (Santa Ana), where the first and the original Little Saigon is located. So for most Vietnamese people, Little Saigon always mean the original one.
That’s why the young Vietnamese prefer the name Saigon Business District more because that will avoid the confusion, which Little Saigon. But the old people prefer the name Little Saigon. But the Vietnamese’s culture do not accept young people to argue or even discuss politic against old people, so young people just keep quiet or discuss in their group only.
My preference: I like the Vietnamese Business District name.

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 09:51 PM
Before 20 November, 2007, Madison avoided all invitations to see the groups of Vietnamese people who wanted the name of Little Saigon for that area of business in San Jose, to discuss the reason why they wanted that name, and to talk about a compromise. She later said that she represented many people (she meant a majority over all the people who attended that council meeting) who wanted another name than “Little Saigon”. However, there were merely two people showing up supporting her viewpoint on that memorable night of 20 November 2007. If there were many people who wanted the name of “Saigon Business District”, then there must be more people showing up. Why didn’t they come? Madison said that they worked full time or 2, 3 jobs, but that’s not an acceptable pretext. We can see that those people, if they do exist, either did not care about the naming, or they were “pro-communists” and afraid to show up in front of all the Vietnamese people who attended the event. From that point, we can see that Madison served “invisible clients” and was ready to sacrifice her political career and all the support of Vietnamese voters, for some “hard to speak out” but very strong or profitable reasons. Therefore, her behavior was not “transparent”, and she was not trustworthy. In conclusion, she does not merit to be or remain a city council member, and we have all the good reasons to recall her and replace her by someone else.
Thuan Thi Do

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 12 at 10:24 PM
Kathleen - I do not know Madison well enough to make judgments on her thinking. Also, I was not at the hearing. It is possible that along with the sincere feeling of the opposition, there is much cant and opportunism. I know it is quite possible to underestimate an issue, even one of such obvious importance. If this battle is joined, it will be a terrible time for the city, and a totally avoidable one. I truly hope that it can be avoided. TMcE

Posted by Tom McEnery
Wednesday, December 12 at 10:46 PM
Thuan --

You lost me—and the majority of all thinking Americans—at ‘pro-Communist’.

Get a grip.

The majority of you came here after our McCarthyism era, where perfectly normal and well-meaning Americans were given the label ‘pro-Communist’ as a synonym for ‘You don’t agree with my politics’.

You lost every last shred of credibility when you use that term in a public American forum.

Pro-Communist elected official. Seriously?

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, December 12 at 11:19 PM
Contempt of Democracy!
So far Madison Nguyen has not been able to produce a list of those supporting for other name, such as “Saigon Business District” or whatsoever. On other hand, those who dearly support for “Little Saigon” have produced a lenghty list of supporters. Speaking of “Saigon Business District” could draw more attentions to visitors or businesses, I personally have discovered that “Little Saigon” does draw a whole lot of visitors from different walks of life including visitors from other nations and other states; likewise, “Little Italian” has significantly attracted visitors who bring money to the district. Madison Nguyen has not done a thorough research about this matter in which cities competes each others for unique features in term of attracting visitors. Should other cities learn from Madison Nguyen in naming a district like “Italian Business District” or “China Business District”? Joking!
Respond to #25. Well! What “China Town” you want to go? joking! Or what “Little Italian” your buddies want to go? (smile)
LuKhu
San Diego of California

Posted by in San Diego, California
Thursday, December 13 at 12:17 AM
I’m with Ryan. It’s beyond ridiculous to allege some sort of communist agenda involved with such a fluff issue like slapping an official name on a particular business district. This just shows how crazed and unreasonable (like their behavior at City Hall didn’t already demonstrate it) the “Little Saigon” supporters are.

Here’s my suggestion:

Any “Little Saigon” supporter who has a business along this section of Story Road, re-name your business, such as “Little Saigon Nails” or “Little Saigon Bakery” or “Little Saigon Restaurant” or “Little Saigon Market” etc. Plaster that name on all the commercial signage in this area and people will start calling the place “Little Saigon” regardless of what the city’s banners on the light standards read.

There are MANY more important issues for the Council to be addressing and absolutely NO more time should be spent on this one.

The Vietnamese community is only going to be hurt politically by any recall attempt that may result from the “Little Saigon” supporters yelling the loudest.

It’s time to move on people, and don’t get mad, get even, using my suggestion above.

Posted by Mark T
Thursday, December 13 at 09:24 AM
Interesting comments from near and far, young and old, “anti-communist” and perhaps “pro-communist”.

These show how little we white folks know about this issue. But Madison should have known, unless she just wanted to have comment on her new clothes.

3000 signatures for recall. She didn’t get that many votes to win, did she?

Now after reading the recent posts from Vietnamese bloggers, it seems to me the only “compromise” that had a chance was for Ms. Nguyen to withdraw her request entirely, get it off the agenda, and let the various factions fight it out in private, with no city involvement.

This should signal the death knell of any further city- sponsored official names for ethnic business districts.

Mr. Mayor and Councilmembers--find a way to get us the items in todays post by Mr. Van Zandt’s replacement for the week. And forget about this headline-grabbing but useless nonsense.

Posted by
Thursday, December 13 at 10:35 AM
Hung:

One of our best blogs ever on SJI. Thanks for taking the time to put so much thought and emotion into your post.

Posted by in Seattle, WA
Thursday, December 13 at 11:45 AM
Personally, I don’t find this stretch of Story Road even remotely attractive and it is sadly lacking the charm of Chinatown in SF. It looks like any of the hundreds of miles of strip mall tackiness found on thoroughfares throughout southern California. Anyone visiting from out of town who expects to encounter some sort of Asian cultural district will be profoundly disappointed to find nothing but a bunch of cheaply built ramshackle commercial buildings with unmaintained parking lots. Who wants to showcase THAT?????

Posted by Mark T
Thursday, December 13 at 11:49 AM
The election between Madison and Linda ( no relationship ) Nguyen as explained to some of district voters in election was political / financial fight between 2 different real estate / business groups for control of District 7 since Council member has large say in planning and other City Council approvals worth millions to winners and the naming issue continues that fight

History repeats itself - same battle for control happened in US Irish, Italian, Chinese and other ethic communities in past

Can Lu Khu, Thuan Do, Vu Nguyen or others explain to everyone who are the groups, what is at stake, younger vs older Vietnamese and what what is going on in Vietnamese press and radio stations ( Linda’s father owns radio station )?

Posted by Distrist 7 Background
Thursday, December 13 at 11:58 AM
I agreed with Mark T (#34). Some people in Vietnamese community did talk about it. If those people that are supporting and love the name of Little Saigon so much, and they claimed that they have more than 90% support not only in San Jose but around the world, then why they don’t invest money to buy land, built the shopping center or whatever they like and then they can name that place Little Saigon without the need to ask for permission from anyone because they own it. If they have real support like they claimed, they should not have any problem to call for investment to do those things.
Most of the area in that stretch in Story Road is owned and built by Chinese’s investment. Even down in the real Little Saigon in Santa Ana, most shopping centers are owned by Chinese’s business.

Posted by in San Jose
Thursday, December 13 at 12:13 PM
Ryan,
Madison has come back to Vietnam to work for 2 years, and her husband now is from a very rich family under the communist regime of Vietnam, and her “in law” family rent a whole Boeing plane to come here to attend her wedding. She does not merit to be considered as a “refugee” anymore, while her family brought her here as a refugee when she was 4 years old. Vietnamese refugees in San Jose have regretted dearly having voted for her to represent them.
Thuan Do

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Thursday, December 13 at 12:22 PM
I`m no expert on this issue, nor do I want to take sides in a debate.

I have a lot of respect for the hispanic community in San Jose, they have a active Hispanic Chamber of Commerce where such issues are debated and decided. They seem to be better organized. Maybe the people from Vietnam could learn from the Hispanic community. I agree with another poster that they “as a group” are only hurting themselves by blasting Madison Nguyen out in the open as they have.

I believe Madison has been very professional in the way she has handled herself. She was born in Vietnam, but she grew up and was educated here. I respect her, she has been very tolerant of her adversaries, I believe our Mayor and City Council should be supportive of her professionalism.

Posted by in san jose
Thursday, December 13 at 12:44 PM
Olivero`s” Little Saigon” Blog on San Jose Inside has become a discussion on NPR today.

Posted by in san jose
Thursday, December 13 at 12:49 PM
The Vietnamese community has embarrassed themselves and San Jose with their immature, childish, and irresponsible behavior regarding this issue.

Posted by Call it "Story Road"
Thursday, December 13 at 01:07 PM
The sentiment of the Vietnamese-American community is why Madison Nguyen was not transparent and what were her hidden agendas.
It would be good for her to have an open dialog with the people and have everything out to the open.
It is not so much about the name but it is about her comments calling the people who opposed are do not thing people that don’t have jobs and her troublesome back door dealings.
That is the contention between her and her people of District 7.
Whatever the case may be of the recall effort, it would be interesting to see what is the result of a favoribility poll taken on Madison Nguyen.

Posted by
Thursday, December 13 at 02:00 PM
This is clearly a far reaching issue as opposed to a local one. We are seeing contributions from San Diego and Orange County on this particular blog. Shades of the Council meeting last month.

There are underlying issues within the Vietnamese community that are driving the pro & con factions around the “Little Saigon” name that those of us who were not part of the Boat People phenomenon can’t relate to.

If the majority of the Vietnamese electorate in D7 considers Madison to be arrogant and elitist, then they can replace her when she is up for re-election (or perhaps the rest of the voters in D7 will decide that a Vietnamese Council representative proved to be too devisive and elect a non-Asian), but recalling her over this issue is not justified.

Posted by Mark T
Thursday, December 13 at 02:32 PM
#24- Dale, please read my entire post. The Vietnamese community has a legal right to go after a recall of the Council Member if they want to. I’m not debating that. My point was that the spirit of the law is to protect us from politicians who are seriously in violations of the Charter or laws of the State, and City. The results of the RDA’s survey on the name, “Little Saigon” reflected a majority and these results should have been honored.

#25- If Madison ignored your requests to meet, or made promises she did not keep, this shows a lack of respect, and integrity. I support your right to fight for what you believe in. I personally, would like to see the name, “Little Saigon” too, but I do feel Madison was trying to compromise with the name she chose.
I am deeply saddened by all of this. I go to a Vietnamese owned Hair Salon in Los Gatos and I remember the excitement and joy of these wonderful women, when talking about having the first Vietnamese Council person in San Jose. They were so proud of Madison, and now, there is only sadness. It really breaks my heart for all of you.
I would like to hold out hope that the Mayor, Council, and Madison will rethink their position, and see the light. I hope Madison will be all right too, because in my heart, I do think she is in a no win position here. If she caves into your demands, some will see her as weak, if she stands firm in her refusal to name the district, Little Saigon, her career is probably over, if not now, later on. I wish you good luck Hung, and hope things work out for all of you.

#31- Mark, you wrote,” The Vietnamese community is only going to be hurt politically by any recall attempt that may result from the “Little Saigon” supporters yelling the loudest.” I fear you are right in this case. As JMO said so eloquently, “This should signal the death knell of any further city- sponsored official names for ethnic business districts.”
I agree that the businesses can name their place anything they want, but I think that this has become a matter of principle for the Vietnamese people, not an issue of compromise. As a mediator, I can tell you one thing for certain, once someone has turned an issue into a matter of right or wrong, or into principle, all hope is lost for a compromise or a middle ground.
The only good thing I can see coming out of this is that maybe the Mayor and Council Members will be more open to listening to the needs of their constituents, rather than special interest groups who give them huge donations, make promises of big business returns, and that voters will be more careful of who they support in future.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Thursday, December 13 at 03:07 PM
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but here’s what I do know and it’s been bugging me for some time.

I’ve love Vietnamese food, all types of Asian food for that matter and for more than a decade have been going and getting “Banh Mi” or what we affectionately call “dollar sandwiches” long before Lee’s Sandwiches became associated with the name. I’d buy ten and bring them to the office and pass them out. The staff would love them.

But here’s what I noticed over the years. Most places never RANG up the purchase. The cash drawer would open, and they would just give you the change.

I’ve been frequenting the GRAND CENTURY MALL, for lunch, which is in the heart of the area now in controversy. Usually I’m the only white guy there. I’d highly recommend it for the great selection of food there.

Today, I went there and did a test, just for San Jose Inside. I went to a Bakery on the opposite side of the mall (outside), bought a Banh Mi, paid with a $20, she didn’t ring it up. She pressed a button, the registered opened, she put the money in, and pulled my change out. The display showed $0.00.

Went into the mall, ordered a lunch plate of noodles at the food court. Paid with a $10, she didn’t ring it, zero’s on the register, money in, money out.

Went and got a pearl drink, didn’t ring, cash drawer opened. I watched another business, they didn’t ring the purchase of a couple that ordered.

One place I saw did ring theirs up, and one other I saw an amount displayed from the last customer. Most displays showed 0.00. The bakery inside the mall rang up all purchases.

I was surprised to see this happening openly at the mall. The smaller out of the way family joints I’ve been to I can see.

I wondered, should this bother me? Shouldn’t I be happy with my $7 lunch and cheap sandwiches?

Is San Jose getting their fair share of taxes with this happening?

Who would be in charge of investigating the hiding of sales?

Posted by I Love Banh Mi
Thursday, December 13 at 03:19 PM
Answer # 35.
1- No Linda Nguyen father does not own a radio station.
2- Really to understand the Vietnamese community, not only in San Jose but around the war it’s pretty simple.
Either you are a nationalist (quoc gia) or you are communist, communist’s agent or pro communist. Now what you are depend if you agree with them or against them. If you agree with them you are a good guy so you are nationalist. If you disagree with them you are bad guy and you are communist. That’s why it’s very common in Vietnamese community for group A to accuse group B as communist, pro communist, working for communist government ... Then group B will accuse the same to group A. So for outsider, both group A and group B are communist.
3- Young Vietnamese have tendency to not involve in politics for reason #2. If they go to school in US, then they have more open mind than their parents, but usually they can not and do not discuss politic with their parents because that can create big family problem. The most common answers that the young generation hear are:
- “You are too young to know what’s happen before, what we went through, the prices we paid ...”
- “You don’t know and understand communist like us”.
-"You talk like American. You know nothing about Vietnam...”
So young people just discuss between themselves.

You can see some of this through post #37. All those things that Do Thuan mentioned are rumors floating around San Jose and some Vietnamese Forums. No proof. But that’s enough and help to support some views that must mean Madison is working for communist.
That’s why in Vietnamese community, if you dislike someone, just brand that person as communist, pro communist, communist’s agent....
The funny thing about #37 accused Madison Nguyen come back to Vietnam for 2 years. Madison Nguyen disclosed when she ran for election. Madison claimed that she went back to Vietnam under exchange student program or study abroad program, I am not sure. But Madison Nguyen did disclose that long time ago. In that time, no problem, no issue. But now when they don’t agree with her, that become one of the thing to show Madison Nguyen is working for communist
So like I said before you are communist or not depend if I like you or not.

Posted by in San Jose
Thursday, December 13 at 03:27 PM
#26

I have two young Vietnamese friends that happened to be in Campbell this morning with other friends from Vietnam. They expressed exactly the same feelings you did.They too explained how the Vietnamese culture works. Maybe in time the older elders will mellow out and respect the younger members of your culture. You are a good people, smart and hard working, time will heal. Be patitent.

Posted by in san jose
Thursday, December 13 at 03:35 PM
#39- Richard,
What is NPR today?

Posted by Kathleen F. in San Jose
Thursday, December 13 at 03:53 PM
Oh, great!! So now we have pro vs. anti commie folks, young vs. old folks in the vietnamese community barking at each other.

Put a sock in it, folks, you’re in America now.

But I guess that won’t happen--almost 50 years later the pro and anti Castro Cubans are still barking @ each other in Miami.

The bullshit side of diversity.

You’re not in VietNam any longer. if you hate the commies so much, go back and fight them.

Otherwise, be thankful for the great opportunity you have here, grow your businesses, get along with each other, and move on.

Let’s face it, as a community you came here far later than others, with nothing but your clothes in many cases, you did not speak “our” language, you learned it (unlike others who after 40 years living here still need translators to comment on the news when they win the lottery), you started businesses, bought homes, got off welfare (unlike others who did speak the language (sort of) but have been on welfare for generations), and you prospered. You ARE the American Dream.

Live the dream and forget the old country politics.

Posted by
Thursday, December 13 at 04:34 PM
Little Saigon SJ Blog

http://www.littlesaigonsj.blogspot.com/

Posted by Little Saigon SJ Blog
Thursday, December 13 at 05:23 PM
Thank you for posting, Vu.

And thank you also, Vinh and Thuan for posting.

I think this public scrutiny will benefit all viewpoints on this issue.

Posted by Ryan Kenny in San Jose
Thursday, December 13 at 05:45 PM
How did this issue rise to a level of controversy so far reaching that it attracted hundreds of people to a City Council meeting and prompted thousands of others to public participation? And what role did San Jose City government have in fostering this problem?

It sounds like the City staff, and surprisingly Madison Nguyen, underestimated the controversy associated with the naming. Perhaps this hatched as a well meaning initiative. Based on what I heard on KQED this morning, the City and Councilmember Nguyen consider the naming of a “business district” entirely different than naming a geographic area or “enclave”.

While that may be true, there is apparently a lot more underlying meaning to the naming; whether it’s a business district or enclave; especially to the Vietnamese community. It is reasonable for elected officials’ constituents to hold them accountable, although a recall at this point would be an unfortunate and incrementally divisive path. Madison Ngyuen should stop trying to explain and defend. At this point it would seem logical for her to say “defer” – table the whole project and show some flexibility and evidence of listening to her constituents. That is unless, she truly has the underlying agenda of political allegiance her critics are claiming, in which case she would have an unwavering position based on principle and political affiliation. It will be interesting to see how this issue will evolve. Is this is an issue where a politician is taking a principled stand based on beliefs and issues, or is this a well meaning novice Councilmember and unsavvy City staff caught up in an issue that has ballooned out of control into a “needless battle”?

Posted by YYY
Friday, December 14 at 12:28 AM
Kathleen/JMO/MarkT/ILoveBanhMi/Vu

Just as divergent as all of your points of view from sympathetic(Kathleen) to bemused(JMO) to condescending(MarkT) to accusatory(ILoveBanhMi), so are the opinions of the VietnameseAmerican community in San Jose(Vu). We also have strong opinions of what happened to this Little Saigon controversy. Everyone has the right to express their points of view as they see fit. All I can add is that as first generation immigrants, we are no different on how we develop our ethnic community as some of you have prior when you’ve first arrived. We first proceed with caution, work and study hard, assimilate, then at certain time in our lives felt secured that we’re finally American.

However, it usually take a particularly horrendous event that galvanize the community and woke us up fast to the fact that we are nowhere near there yet and we need to do a lot more to be treated equal and be heard…to truly be American. It could be a discriminatory remark, a racially motivated arrest …Or perhaps … that POLITICIAN(s) that come into our community, befriended us, wear our traditional outfits, wear our flag ties and salute our flag, wax Vietnamese politics, try to speak our language, eat our food, ask us for our votes, our donation, show respect to our elders, promised us business contacts and prosperity, share our community pains, tell us that we matter, ask us if they can do anything…ANYTHING.. for us even though we just ask them simply to be our friends always…..THEN WHEN WE NEED THAT ONE THING…. THAT ONE #@$&* THING……. for all the love and pride that Vietnamese hairdresser and other like her shared for Madison Nguyen, all that outpouring supports that our elders who spoke no English but know how to pat the backs of Mayoral Candidate Chuck Reed and Dave Cortese along with a “Fonzi” thumbs up, all the time the community embraced Sam Liccardo, Nancy Pyle, Nora Campos, Forrest Williams and taken them into our homes and our hearts…THAT ONE THING…we get a mockery Banana Republic Court no different from the courts in our homeland where quid pro quo, things are decided already ahead of time, guilty before trial…then we get some of these so called FRIENDSof theVIETNAMESE CouncilMembers to lecture us on our rudeness and how proud they are that Madison Nguyen showed courage and bravery and what a great leader she is for the community…last, for an encore, we have the eloquent Judy Chirco ends the evening with… Drum rolls please…"I have heard more disrespect tonight than I ever thought I would hear from the Vietnamese community”.

As most of us younger generation (the neutral members of the community) followed this saga, we’re amused and appalled that CouncilMember Nguyen has blatantly disregard her elders, her community activists, her anti-communist constituents and her supporters. Yet we nodded our heads and say “that’s our politician gal, all grown up politically playing to the mainstream crowd”. Then the insults poured in the very next day. “This is the work of a bunch of out of work, irrelevant, minority extremists. The real supporters for Saigon Business District are the people that work 2-3 jobs that’s not here last night and I need to represent them”…WHAT?? That was my father, my uncle, my granduncle you have just insulted. WHY? You won the %&*$# name, why insult them for?? What did they do to deserve this? That’s the moment us younger generation woke up and wonder why did she abuse her own community for just a simple name. What’s going on here?

Then the suckerpunchers Mercury News, blog sites, our Mayor, Vic Aljourny along with Madison cranked up the attack PR machine …and now it’s personal…NOW WE HAVE TO DEFEND OUR WEAK, OUR ELDERS, OUR NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING OR WRITING MEMBERS, OUR HARDCORE MEMBERS THAT ARE STILL ANGRY AT THE COMMUNIST REGIME.. FROM.. (1) THE MAINSTREAM THAT WANT THIS TO BE A RACIST, IMMIGRANT ISSUE (2)THE SHUT THE F@#$ UP AND GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM CROWD (3) THE THIS IS AMERICA NOT VIETNAM, ACT LIKE AN AMERICAN OR GO BACK TO YOUR DAMN COUNTRY (4) THE DON’T ROCK THE BOAT, BE GOOD PASSIVE ASIANS AND DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD CROWD (5) THE THIS IS MY TOWN SAN JOSE, NOT YOURS. WHO CARES WHAT YOU THINK OR WANT CROWD (6) THE YOUNG VIETNAMESE HIPHOP GENERATION THAT DISMISS THEIR PARENTS AND ELDERS AS RADICAL AND ARE EMBARRASS BY THEM (6) THE POOR INNOCENT MADISON BEING UNFAIRLY ATTACKED BY THESE IDIOTS. LET’S CLONE MADISON AND ELECT HER MAYOR MEDIA MACHINE (7) THE THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY CONSPIRACY CROWD (8) THE YOU VIETCONGS ARE STINKING UP MY CITY WITH PROSTITUTION, GAMBLING, TAX CHEATING, WHY DID WE LET YOU COME INTO OUR COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE, YOU VIETNAM WAR LOSERS (9) THE IF YOU HATE THE COMMIES SO MUCH GO BACK THERE AND FIGHT THEM CROWD….need I continue???

Did we ask for this? Did my father and his elder friends deserved to be vilified by all of this because they stood up for a principle? My elders worked hard for 32 years, put us through school, tell us America is the greatest country and taught us to always be respectful. They were in the crowd that night because they thought, as Americans their voices mattered. Boy, were they in for a rude awakening in American politics by no other but one of their own, Madison Nguyen. To the rest of you, I do not expect you to understand. To the young generation, Madison Nguyen is us, is me. She is my generation. What she did was unnecessarily shaming her elders, or as we called it, “hon lao” (disrespectful). Did she need to play politics with them, with her community? Thus, she had shamed me because I supported her and I have to answer to my elders on why she took a simple thing...THAT ONE THING…that she knows mattered to my elders and embarrassed them publicly.

WE’RE BEING AMERICANS; WE’RE FIGHTING BACK WITH A RECALL. THAT IS WHAT AMERICA TAUGHT US. STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR THOSE WHO CAN’T.

Posted by
Friday, December 14 at 04:19 AM
52 - Thanks for your comments. Interesting. But (IMHO) you need to look beyond the Vietnamese community. Many of us who have had community issues before the Council over the years have often left City Hall disappointed. This should be a community issue and not just a Vietnamese issue.
If we were to try and launch a recall every time we didn’t get our way at City Hall, many of us would be working on recall elections fulltime. You certainly have the right to attempt the recall but I believe it is an abuse of the recall option, just as the recall of Gray Davis was an abuse of the system. I didn’t like Gray Davis and didn’t vote for him—but he was elected. He didn’t break any laws, no moral charges, etc. People who didn’t like him worked to overturn the an election that was won fairly.
The damage you will inflict on the community with a recall needs to be weighed against the benefits. I believe the benefits are few and the damage will be great—but, you are free to move forward with a recall and backwards with any progress you hope to achieve.
Good luck.

Posted by Council Watcher
Friday, December 14 at 09:36 AM
JMO, great post in #48. Your “American dream” comments are spot-on.

Vu, your post #45 was helpful in trying to understand the whole “communist” thing. But what I don’t understand is how any Vietnamese immigrant could call another one a communist. Weren’t all of the people on those boats back in the 70’s escaping a communist regime? Why would a communist want to be on those same boats and come to a free country like the USA? Wouldn’t they prefer to stay in the homeland where their political views were shared by their government? It seems to me that any Vietnamese immigrant accusing another of being a communist would ring hollow throughout that community.

Posted by Mark T
Friday, December 14 at 10:28 AM
Lost in this discussion is the fact that this whole controversy started when Madison Nguyen proposed naming a Vietnamese business district to honor Vietnamese-owned businesses that helped to transform Story Road. Isn’t it ironic how a fringe group in the Vietnamese community now wants to destroy that honor with a series of phony rumors and innuendos?

From the very beginning the “Call her a Commie” crowd has opposed Nguyen’s efforts to honor Vietnamese merchants. The original name “Vietnamese Business District” was criticized because the word “Vietnamese” would somehow indicate support for the communist government in Vietnam.” Then “Saigon Business District” was opposed because...well...it’s not “Little Saigon.” Now any councilmember who does not support “Little Saigon” is rumored to be closet Communists.

This sort of gutter politics says a lot about the “Little Saigon” supporters. Maybe that’s why nobody is taking the “Little Saigon” factions seriously. Through their own actions they lack credibility.

This controversy was never about the name of the business district. It is a power struggle within the local Vietnamese community with a little help from Southern California Vietnamese. Ironically, if the “Call her a Commie” lynch mob succeeds in recalling Nguyen the chances are very good her replacement would be non-Vietnamese. How does that benefit the Vietnamese community?

Posted by Jimme A. Break
Friday, December 14 at 11:04 AM
#52
I don’t think ILoveBanhMi accused anything but told the truth. How many time did we buy something and no receipt was given. ILoveBanhMi just stated the facts.

About the name Little Saigon, it was discussed a lot on most of the Vietnamese forums. Most of them accused Madison Nguyen as the leader to manipulate the votes her way. But some opinions thought other wise and they did make a lot of sense, but look like Little Saigon’s supporters just toss it aside because even that’s true, they can’t do anything. So they picked Madison Nguyen as their easy target.
This theory was posted on some popular Vietnamese’s forum sometime after the press conference to announce the name Saigon Business District and before the council vote. It make a lot of sense that’s why it was circulated, forwarded and discussed in young and professional Vietnamese circle. The theory go like this.
Little Saigon was first use in Santa Ana from around 1978, 1979 where the 1st big group of Vietnamese started to live and open business in Bolsa Ave. Through the years, that community grow bigger and bigger, up to the point that the name Little Saigon become well known inside the Vietnamese communities around the world. So if you are Vietnamese living in different states where not too many Vietnamese live, Little Saigon is the place to visit. It’s a place where you can see not only a stretch but the whole area that have Vietnamese names. It’s a place where you can eat real Vietnamese foods and the price is cheap. It’s a place where you can speak Vietnamese all day long ... You get the picture. It’s also help where Disneyland is few miles away. Few years ago, seeing the potential, Garden Grove and Westminster city decided to do something to attract tourist. So they decided to erect some direction signs to Little Saigon in few highways that lead to Little Saigon, built welcome signs, gates… For a while, down there between 2 city, they did have some arguments where the real Little Saigon start and end. Few months ago, one city just agreed to spend about $1 million to built a big welcome gate, kind like the gate in San Francisco’s China Town. They also spent some money to see what they can do to improve Little Saigon to attract not only Vietnamese tourist, but all other tourists. I remembered that the recommendations was submitted to the city. If that’s the case, the theory goes, Little Saigon is a trade name and Garden Grove and Westminster city will have to protect that trade name, because it does not make sense to invest millions of dollars to improve the image of Little Saigon and then up here in San Jose we have other Little Saigon, in San Francisco already had one and who know how many Little Saigon will pop up in California in the future.
So when the new that San Jose council can vote for the name of Little Saigon, through unofficial talk, back channel ... Garden Grove and Westminster warned San Jose can not use the same name Little Saigon, because that’s copycat a well-known name. And if San Jose vote for it, that can result to legal action. Now Mayor Chuck Reed is in difficult position because if they vote for Little Saigon and if Garden Grove and Westminster sue, San Jose will loose because based on the history, all Vietnamese will have to agree that Little Saigon is originated from Garden Grove and Westminster. So in the official point of view, Mayour Chuck Reed was forced to pick another name Saigon Business District.
That theory explained that’s why during the news conference in front of the city hall before the vote, Mayor Chuck Reed keep telling the City Council can vote for the name Saigon Business District, but the Vietnamese can call whatever the name they want.
So from that point of view, that theory don’t think Madison Nguyen is the main force to pick the name Saigon Business District but Mayor Chuck Reed is. That’s why in the news conference to announce the name, we saw the Mayor, Vice Mayor and 3 Council members.
That theory explained that Madison Nguyen is too new in the local politic world to pull this out. She not even finish her 2nd term so she does not have enough weight to convince the Mayor, Vice Mayor and other Council Members to vote against popular name. Just like Bui Hung wrote, both Mayor and Vice Mayor worked with Vietnamese community a lot. Both of them have multiple contacts from different groups, fractions inside Vietnamese community so they know the feeling. So to say a new comer like Madison Nguyen can trick, manipulate some experienced politicians like the Mayor, Vice Mayor and other Council Members is no sense. But the whole thing is guide by the Mayor and Madison Nguyen understood the real problem agreed to be “Bad” in the front.
Is this theory make sense ? Yes for a lot of people who work in the business world understand the trade name value, protect investment ... For some Vietnamese people they don’t believe that “Little Saigon” can be a trade name that Garden Grove and Wetminster can protect. But some people think as soon as one city recognized that name and invest money to promote that name, it will be difficult to name other area the same name special in the same state.
Maybe Tom McEnery can give his opinion based on his experience as Mayor before.

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 11:25 AM
Vietnamese community see what voters have for years

Elected officials work for special interests, contributors, lobbyists and insiders and city staff enables abuses and insider tax giveaways

Welcome to America Wish you success recall if you win change City Hall Good fortune recall

Posted by
Friday, December 14 at 12:50 PM
Let’s talk about the term CM Nguyen used “compromise.” A compromise should start with a dialog, not with an imposition by someone in power. If she had opened an dialog, she would know why the Vietnamese community (due to cultural reason) doesn’t accept her imposed name. For weeks, before the Nov. 15 press conference, the community and the city staffs were kept in the dark as to what is this “new option” name is going to be, only the 4 other individuals who signed the memo with her (Chuck Reed, Dave Cortese, Sam Liccardo, Judy Chirco) know of this “secret”. Is this anyway how an “open” government should work (like Chuck Reed, the Mayoral candidate, advocated, not Chuck Reed, the Mayor, who is one of the strong backer on this secret pact.) Sidetrack to the Mayor, in a meeting with the Vietnamese community and the committee for Little Saigon (after the Nov. 15th press conference), he challenged them to bring all their people to fill up the city hall, it is not going to make much of the difference. When asked to just keep an open mind when entering the city chamber that night, he laughed!!! The council decision on Nov. 20 was predetermined way before!!!

Speaking about representation, is it better to not have any representation at all than to have mis-representation from your elected official? This is in regarding to her claimed of “community division” over the name, Nguyen kept claiming that 15 Vietnamese associations and two Hispanic associations wanted the name “New Saigon”, these 15 chairmen who signed this petition should never be counted as associations when they never consulted with their members of the endorsement (as many of their members as well as some chairmen had spoken out in protest to this misled, exploited information), and out of that 6 already retracted their endorsement and showed their support for the name Little Saigon. These retracting statements were all submitted to CM Nguyen as well as all other CMs and the Mayor. The two Hispanic associations, when speaking at the city hearing, what exactly are they endorsing, “CM Nguyen’s decision and how wonderful the CM is”, not a name of their preference? So, the basis of her misled argument of “community division” (as ridiculous as it’s when it comes to “majority rules” democracy principle) does not even hold! The Vietnamese community was polarized over her first election (the fight between Linda and Madison) should we put the very last candidate on the primary to be in her seat, in the name of “community division”? Maybe that would have been a better choice!

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 01:28 PM
Council Watcher is wrong - This should be a community issue and not just a Vietnamese issue.

Recall politicians who votes against majority voters so they learn who they work for

Council ignores voters and works for contributors, lobbyists, insiders with city staff helping to hide it and give our taxes to insiders

Good Luck with recall

Posted by May mắn với sự gọi lại
Friday, December 14 at 01:30 PM
#52, well said.

I have my own share of distaste for Diaspora politic. But for all the criticism against it, the question is “Are people free speak for themselves? If not, does it fall on those people who can to speak up for those who are mistreated?”

From end-of-WWII, Taiwan was under either occupation or martial law rule by Chinese KMT regime. Taiwanese people weren’t free to express their will politically. The Taiwanese diaspora spoke up because those who stayed couldn’t.

It’s generally agreed that the effort of Taiwanese diaspora speed up the end of martial law in Taiwan. Once people in Taiwan are able to speak for themselves, the influence of Taiwanese diaspora gradually faded away, mostly.

Of course, if my experience is any guide, Vietnamese-American community may not be happy with what a free and democratic Vietnam will decided for themselves. That’s the impression I got from talking with Taiwanese who manage factories in Vietnam. But that’s for the future.

Posted by Kanchou in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 02:11 PM
#52 Hung Bui,

I understand what you say, and we should all respect our elders, they have a lot of life experience, but things change and we as elders are not always right.

The more I read the arguments the more I`m hearing this is a cultural differance between Asia and America.

Madison is being American too. She is an American citizen, she is younger than your father and she is a woman but she has her right to her opinion too. In America she has the same right as your father. The same is true for young male adults.

My wife and I discuss several issues at home, we don`t always come to the same conclusion. Some times she`s wrong, sometimes she is right and I`m wrong, but this is not a reason for me to divorce her, I respect her opinion. I have two grown sons, I listen to their opinions and sometimes they have given more thought to a subject and are correct to disagree with me. I respect that right of theirs.

I hope you understand what I`m saying. These two opposing vietnamese parties need to discuss this matter together and respect each other`s opinion, come to a compromise.

Madison needs to respect your father, but he needs to respect her opinion too.

Posted by in san jose
Friday, December 14 at 02:50 PM
Madison Nguyen said there are other issues more important for District 7. Why doesn’t she listen to the majority of the Vietnamese Americans who make up 40% of her District and reconsider the naming, so everyone can move on. To start with, it was her who came up with the idea of naming this business district to “recognize the contribution of the Vietnamese American community to the City of San Jose. Is it reasonable to waste Cty’s Tax Money in the hundreds of thousands dollars to pay for the signs and banners bearing the name that the Vietnamese Americans are not happy with. The Vietnamese American Community rather has no name for the District than a name that the Community doesn’t like at all.

Posted by in Medica; Clinic is in Distict 7
Friday, December 14 at 02:54 PM
59 - Read it again. That’s what I said—it should be a community issue, NOT just a Vietnamese issue.

Posted by Council Watcher
Friday, December 14 at 02:58 PM
Answer to #56. I think before you go around and make up all these theories about legal action the city of Garden Grove and Westminster would take against San Jose, you should know one fact that Andy Quach, council member of Westminster, flew up and spoke in front of the council urging them to adopt the name “Little Saigon” for the area for economic development. You can watch this from the website of san jose city government, along with Janet Nguyen, supervisor of Santa Clara county. One other points, why we haven’t seen the “legal action” these cities takes against San Francisco yet, since they officially designated their “Little Saigon” few years back already?

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 03:30 PM
How ridiculous for a segment of the Vietnamese community to even consider a recall. This is the United States, at least for now. If there are people living in the United States who wish to be in Saigon, they can buy a plane ticket. At one time there was this concept of assimilation among those who came to the United States. Those who are pushing for Little Saigon have a vision of polarization for their community. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Posted by Dave
Friday, December 14 at 03:50 PM
How embarrasing for madison to be called upon by her own community to resign or face recall!

madison--just resign and save yourself the embarrassment and your community the hardship.

Do the right thing and spare all of us from hearing about this issue anymore.

Posted by Daniel Coto
Friday, December 14 at 03:50 PM
Answer to #4 (Mark T) Is there anything wrong with the name Saigon Business District? I can see a couple of things wrong with it. Culturally speaking, it is unsatisfactory (or even bad) for the Vietnamese Americans. The reason simply is this. Let’s say that I have a daughter, and if I name her the same as my mother’s name, in Vietnamese culture, it’s a sign of disrespect (implicitly you are lowering your mother to the rank below your own), but in American culture, it would be considered to be a sign of honoring or endearing. This is why so many older Vietnamese Americans are opposing this name. To an American, it’s honoring, but not to the Vietnamese.

On the other hand, a modifier (in front of Saigon) would not fall to this category. Economically, Little Saigon is a brand-name. Historically, a “little” group of Vietnamese people or business getting together is exactly how the Vietnamese refugees started out in this country, been very poor and had nothing to build on, but they transformed all that to prosperity. That is part of our (Vietnamese American) history and thus part of our Vietnamese American refugee identity, why turn your back on history if it could be a source of inspiration.

The Vietnamese American community in San Jose does not own CM Nguyen (as she made it look like to the mainstream public) but as a Vietnamese American, who claimed to understand and represent the Vietnamese American constituents, yes we expect better from her. Regarding this cultural difference, there are two possibilities: (1) She knows (I must tell you that CM Nguyen once taught a Vietnamese American culture class at Evergreen Valley College, if she doesn’t know this, we should start questioning the capability of our college instructors!), but she thinks this name (SBD) to the Americans would look like honoring and compromising, so she can easily sell it off, who care about a bunch of old Vietnamese, they will not be able to articulate/communicate this to the mainstream public; (2) She doesn’t know/understand this cultural fact. But if she is really sincere in wanting to reach a compromise in honoring the Vietnamese, she should have opened a dialog with the community. A compromise should start with a dialog, not with an imposition by someone in power. As I stated earlier, the so-called compromise of the “new option” name were kept a secret until the Nov. 15 press conference. Council members making decision (among themselves) instead of communicating/dialoging with the community (on a community issue) is what we saw at this step, a long with taking community input (through the survey) and just throw it all way.

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 03:52 PM
Everyone. This issue is over.

There is no way that the City Council will ever name anything Little Saigon. In fact, thanks to this issue, they will never name anything again, since they have learnt the hard way that this is not a City Council issue.

The Vietnamese community has disgraced themselves with their selfish and childish behavior. Even worse, they have set their political progress back by years due to their behavior.

Posted by Game Over - You Lose
Friday, December 14 at 04:03 PM
#54.
It’s very sad but true. To understand the Vietnamese communtity better, I think it’s better to explain the difference ways that the Vietnamese arrived to USA.
- The first group left Vietnam before the Vietnam war end April 30, 1975. They left VN through the US’s evacuation program or by any way they can to the US ships that anchored outside the VN’s sea. Those people the Vietnamese called them “di tan” or I can translate as the evacuee. Those people never live under the communist after the war.
- The second group left Vietnam after April 30, 1975 by boat and later by land. The highest point is around 1978 to 1981. A lot of horror story about their journeys were well-known so the name “boat people” was given to this group. Depend on when they left VN, they lived few years under the communist rule and those were the worst. I belong to this group.
- Later on, a lot of third countries US included wanted to stop Vietnamese to escape Vietnam this way, so they announced that they will stop accept refugees. In the mean time, US had a program to accept all former South Vietnamese army officers who spent at least 3 years in the communist re-education camp to settle in USA with their direct family. The Vietnamese call the people who arrived to USA through this program as HO. This is the 3rd wave. This group is the one that paid the most heavy price. They fought the communist during the war. After the war they spend years and years in the communist re-education camp. They lost every thing. So it’s no suprise if they are the most anti-communist.
- The fourth wave still in progress are people who come to USA through the family reunion. People who arrived from 1st to 3rd wave when they become US citizen start sponsor their relatives.
Now the Vietnamese communities believed that the communist send cover agent on all the groups I listed above to collect information to see if we try to organize anything to overthrow their government ... The Vietnamese communities also believe that the communist’s agents will do anything to undermine, divide and control the Vietnamese communities. I believe that too, because it will be stupid for the communist not to do that.

So it’s easier to accuse some one as communist agent, pro communist or working for communist to silent the opposite view. It’s so easy to do that it’s wide spread in all the Vietnamese communities. If you can read Vietnamese, and you visit some Vietnamese forums, you will be shocked to read those posts that look like all Vietnamese’s group are communist, pro communist or working for communist. In San Jose, one case just finished in court where one Vietnamese’s weekly newspaper accused one owner of the radio station as communist, working for communist government.. few years ago. The weekly newspaper lost because they have no proof.

Post # 55 is right. The majority of Vietnamese was shocked that a small group rejected the first name that was proposed Vietnamese Business District with a very strange reason that “Vietnamese” is not anti communist enough and they wanted the name Little Saigon because it shows that this is more anti-communist. Most of Vietnamese think Little Saigon as a place to shop, eat and visit relatives. So what’s anti communist about it ? So that’s why some people saw right away that this is non sense, and they see right through that was an effort to embarass Madison Nguyen. So to be safe, they stayed as far away as they can.

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 04:40 PM
#61- Richard, very well said. I come from back east and I was brought up to honor and acquiesce to elders as well. I still do to a point, and I’m 51 years old. I can understand the outrage of the elderly Vietnamese community. They feel unheard and disrespected by Madison.
The problem as you so beautifully pointed out is that she is young, she is Americanized, and most importantly, she MUST represent the entire District 7 constituency, if she is to truly up hold her oath. Having said that, I think there are so many different issues bleeding into one another, that it is getting complicated, and overwhelming for everyone involved.
What I love about this conversation here on SJI is that these folks from the Vietnamese community are educating us in the ways of their culture. Too often I see immigrant communities stay off to themselves, and not truly assimilate with our American culture. They call themselves, African Americans, Vietnamese Americans etc., but they don’t interact, or become a part of our culture and traditions in a way that allows us to really know them. Council Watcher is right; this should be a community issue, NOT a Vietnamese issue.
I base my thoughts on that by looking at a few facts, here are just a small bit of them, one the survey by the RDA that reflected a majority of support for the name “Little Saigon.” That survey was ignored. Two, too many times our Council has it’s mind made up long before input by caring community members hear about, or are notified of an issue. Three, how can a special group of Vietnamese, Hispanic or whatever race, put a candidate into office and expect that CM to vote only their way, rather than taking the entire districts needs into consideration? Four, why did a Council Member refuse meetings with individuals when asked? Even a CM who hates someone must at the very least have an aide meet with you. Five, if we are electing people into office and don’t hold them accountable for promises they make to us, what kind of electoral, democratic process do we really have? And six look at the racism this issue is bringing out! Look at how angry or fearful some Americans are about having our culture taken over by businesses and cultures from overseas or other countries. Look at how disrespected Americans feel. It is very interesting to me, because there is just so much going on that it really is difficult to grasp it all.
You see, I feel this issue is much broader than just Madison did or didn’t do something she was expected to do, and I really think it bares closer examination and many great minds, points of view, and open, honest, RESPECTFUL conversation. One last point I’d like to make is this, the reason I have compassion for Madison, even though I really don’t agree with the way she has behaved or handled this is because, she is unfairly caring a burden of decades of history, hurts/pain, and unrealistic expectations of a very proud hard working culture.
I remember reading both Jackie Kennedy, and Mrs. King saying that it was a very difficult, and tiring burden to be the wives, and widows of such great men. They had to live their lives out under a great deal of stress, judgment, and criticisms based solely on their husband’s causes, careers, and contributions to this country. I cannot imagine what a tough time being a young, educated, Vietnamese woman like Madison is, and trying to please so many unhappy people. She started out trying to honor her people, and now her life, her career, and her will to serve this City is being trashed. My heart truly goes out to her, her Council staff, and her family because I know they are being treated badly too. It is just so sad to see.

#68- Thank you for sharing your opinion on this issue, but I strongly disagree with your statement, “The Vietnamese community has disgraced themselves with their selfish and childish behavior. Even worse, they have set their political progress back by years due to their behavior.” The Vietnamese community is entitled under the First Amendment to speak their truth, even when or if you disagree with them. Bashing these folks for their commitment to an ideal is at best, ignorant, very much lacking in compassion, and self-righteous. Game over~

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 05:40 PM
# 67
You had a very strange explanation about the Vietnamese Culture:
“Is there anything wrong with the name Saigon Business District? I can see a couple of things wrong with it. Culturally speaking, it is unsatisfactory (or even bad) for the Vietnamese Americans. The reason simply is this. Let’s say that I have a daughter, and if I name her the same as my mother’s name, in Vietnamese culture, it’s a sign of disrespect (implicitly you are lowering your mother to the rank below your own), but in American culture, it would be considered to be a sign of honoring or endearing. This is why so many older Vietnamese Americans are opposing this name. To an American, it’s honoring, but not to the Vietnamese. “
Your explanation is same as when the name Vietnamese Business District was opposed because it can be mistaken as communist. It’s misleading and not true.

You are half right when you wrote that you can not name your daughter same as your mother. But for the name of the place, Vietnamese culture has nothing against it if you want to use it. Right at San Jose, we have Saigon restaurant, we have Vung Tau restaurant, we have My Tho, Hue, Kien Giang, Ca Mau, Nha Trang, Da Lat restaurant .... All those names are the names of big and famous cities at Vietnam Should I go on and I can list more. Not only retaurants used those names but a lot of other type of business also used those names too. But I don’t see any older Vietnamese are opposing those business or boycott those business. I don’t even see any one asking those business to add a modifer in front of it like you explained to become Little Saigon restaurant, Little Nha Trang restaurant ... But I did, and still see older Vietnamese come and eat at those restaurants.

So is it a new rule that someone just make up that you can name your restaurant, your hair salon, your market, your liquor store Saigon but you can not name Saigon Business District because “Culturally speaking, it is unsatisfactory (or even bad) for the Vietnamese Americans.” ?

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, December 14 at 11:58 PM
WOW! This blog and posts are great stuff! I took the time to read every posting this morning. Thanks Tom.
#52 clearly laid out the territory.
Perhaps I can shed a bit of simplicity to this sharing of dialoge.
Today , my son Paul and I will be going to San Francisco. It’s a reward of sorts.
An Irish coffee at the Chiefton, Breakfast at the Ramp on the water, shop and mingle in the Mission District. A fresh crab at Fisherman’s Wharf and a glass of wine at water’s edge.
Grag a cab to China Town, for some shopping and rubbing shoulders with folks that live and support that unique way of life. The energy is filling. Follow the Barbary Coast Trail to Red’s Place ending up at Union Square for the last of our shopping. If we have any energy left, walk to the Sir Francis Drake and catch some sounds at Harry Denton’s.
Mexican, Chinese, Italians, & Irish. All in one perfect Saturday.
Strip mall’s and box stores are ok for stuff. But to live your sprit one have be there where the people are that make their own energy that attracts guys like us. Sharing is the true purpose!
We started our weekend holiday last night at McCormic"s with $1.95 cheese burgers and salmon cakes, with friends. All in a sea of Families and Christmas lights. San Jose, YEA!
What’s in a name? Nothing! Call it what you want. It’s the folks that attract. Try it you’ll like it!
The Village Black Smith & Son

Posted by Gil Hernandez
Saturday, December 15 at 09:42 AM
#72 Gil-
Right on! We, as a city, would do well to focus on the possibilities of a multi-cultural community rather than get hung up on the petty politics of the naming “controversy.”
No matter what you call the Saigon Business District San Jose now has a neighborhood with some wonderful restaurants and markets, interesting cultural opportunities and an emerging population of educated, hard-working people who are taking their rightful place in our community. Compare that stretch of Story Road today with the Story road of 20 years ago when it was a slum. The transformation has been good for San Jose.
THAT’s what Madison sought to honor with the naming of a business district. How ironic that people within her own community would seek to destroy it.

Posted by Just Watching
Saturday, December 15 at 11:56 AM
Many of the posts here totally miss the point of the Little Saigon controversy. It has little to do with Vietnam and everything with American principles and values, for the most part. What is at stake here isn’t the simple naming of a small piece of land, but holding our government accountable for its corrupt actions.

When 90% of the people beg their elected officials to properly represent their views only to see the complete opposite happens, the people have not only a right, but a patriotic duty to remind the politicians that the interests of the people come before those of the political elites. Otherwise, we would have a corrupt dictatorship, and not a constitutional American Republic. Countless Americans have given their lives for the Republic fighting against dictatorships in England and Nazi Germany. And we are still doing so today as brave American soldiers fight to defend our way of life.

Politicians like Madison Nguyen who don’t respect the interests of the people mock at these heroic Americans and our values. Why should we promote American principles in Iraq if some politicians don’t respect them here? Would a handful of folks still ask Madison to “stick to her guns?” For the sake of America, I hope not.

Posted by
Saturday, December 15 at 01:50 PM
# 67
Based on your post, I guess that you support the name Little Saigon. You also have a same name as one of the leader of the Little Saigon support organization. But I am not sure if you and that person are one person or different. But you wrote something that I am shocked and very curious. You wrote “Economically, Little Saigon is a brand-name.”
That’s what some people think a long time ago and that’s why they understand the difficult positions that the Mayor, Vice Mayor and some Council Members must be if they voted for Little Saigon when they clearly know the name was well-known on all Vietnamese communities around the world. The name Little Saigon also has some economic value ...
Even you also acknowledge that. So how can you expect the Mayor, Vice Mayor and all the Council Members to vote for a copy cat a well-known brand name ?
Your post help explain why they can not vote for the name Little Saigon. That’s why it shocked me. But even knowing that, you still want to force San Jose to approve the name Little Saigon ?

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, December 15 at 02:21 PM
Gil - As usual you have a great observation. This series of blogs and commentary is very educational to all who want to know about our city, past, present and future. TMcE

Posted by Tom McEnery
Saturday, December 15 at 06:09 PM
#74
You wrote, “When 90% of the people beg their elected officials to properly represent their views only to see the complete opposite happens, the people have not only a right, but a patriotic duty to remind the politicians that the interests of the people “

That is a bunch of baloney. We elect officials who are hopefully qualified to make what are the best decisions for everyone, not just one specific segment of one group. If we are just going to elect officials who blindly vote based on just numbers, lets do away with elected officials and make all decisions based on popular referendum. Just because Nguyen didn’t vote your way does not make her corrupt.

Posted by Steve
Saturday, December 15 at 06:18 PM
Vu Nguyen # 56 wrote:"If that’s the case, the theory goes, Little Saigon is a trade name and Garden Grove and Westminster city will have to protect that trade name...”

OMIGOD!!!!--next we’ll have a war like that between Huntington Beach and Santa Cruz over the name “Surf City”.

And further:” And if San Jose vote for it, that can result to legal action. “ A sure sign that a group has assimilated into American culture is the use of litgation to “solve” problems.

Posted by
Saturday, December 15 at 06:47 PM
Vu Nguyen,

Your contribution in post #71 exposes an important characteristic of cultural clashes, that being the limitations of raw logic in dissecting a disagreement.

Citing an excellent post by MyPhuong Le (#67), you demonstrate an inconsistency in the argument of those so vehemently opposed to the name, Saigon Business District. As you correctly note, logic suggests that if it is okay to use the names of other Vietnamese cities for businesses here, then it should be okay to use the name Saigon for a business district. The problem is that in this dispute—as it is in every other cultural clash, logic comes with strings attached, strings that may not be comprehensible to everyone, but strings that are nonetheless deserving of recognition.

Given that you acknowledge MyPhuong Le’s point about the relationship between namesake and respect in the Vietnamese culture, then it would have to be assumed that her contention about the political importance of how “Saigon” is used here is either an accurate reflection of the feelings of one side, or something she just made up.

Assuming that hers is an accurate reflection, then we are faced with, and must account for, the inconsistency you previously observed. The first question we must ask ourselves is if we, those outside the group who, due to differences of race, culture, class, and life experience, might see some things differently than do those in the group? The answer is an obvious yes. The second question is, could this difference of perspective cause one side to see an inconsistency where none exists? Well, let’s examine that by looking at a different clash of cultures.

Having been born and raised in San Jose I am no stranger to the Mexican flag. Beginning in childhood I encountered it in the homes of friends, at the neighborhood market, in favorite restaurants, and never once did it offend me as an American. I understood it as a symbol of their heritage, not their patriotic allegiance. Then came the recent “immigrant rights” marches through our cities, with thousands of foreign citizens taking over our streets and demanding the rights and privileges enjoyed by American citizens, all the while holding up that very familiar Mexican flag.

Easily one of the most offensive things I have ever witnessed. My perspective: these were not prospective Americans proud of their heritage, these were foreigners challenging us with their numerical power and demonstrating their allegiance to another nation. My anger was beyond words.

I was not alone in my reaction. It was one shared by Americans in the millions—people of every color and creed. (I firmly believe that had this demonstration been attempted a hundred years earlier the local citizenry would’ve welcomed the marchers with gunfire.) Yet I am, nonetheless, capable of understanding that my reaction to the flag in that one circumstance could be deemed contradictory, given my lifelong tolerance to it in others. But I would argue that any logical analysis of human behavior demands an accounting of human nature. First and foremost, we are cultural beings.

I think the lesson is this: no matter if the issue is Little Saigon or foreign flags or whatever, when cultures clash logic is useful only up to one side’s line in the sand, a line that might not be obvious or even knowable in advance, but one whose location becomes increasingly predictable as voices get louder and divisions grow. It is the job of the politician to predict that line and deal with those who will hold it.

You may have noticed that the Mexican flag was all but nonexistent in the later marches. The political blunder was that obvious, the damage that significant. The remarkably tolerant American public had been pushed too far.

In the matter of Little Saigon, it is certainly understandable that the older generations of Vietnamese immigrants—the generations that lost the most, suffered the most, and were most challenged by the demands of their new country, might, for reasons of tradition, emotion, or any combination of things, draw their line in the sand with the name of their beloved Saigon. If this was indeed the case—if MyPhuong Le was correct, then a grievous political error was made, and it was made by the only council member with enough access to that community to see the clash coming.

At this point the truth remains to be unraveled. The emotion demonstrated by the highly-visible Little Saigon group is certainly consistent with a group grieving deep wounds, quite the opposite of the behavior of those favoring the other name. This event is, as was suggested Luong Do (post #74), potentially exposing as much about the inner workings of the council as it is the internecine conflicts of the Vietnamese community.

Great stuff!

Posted by frustrated finfan
Saturday, December 15 at 07:31 PM
#77 Steve

You are right. It appears that, at least for the more vocal individuals on this subject, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the political process works in this country. In fact, if politics worked as they desire then we would have, in essence, a dictatorship.

However, this misunderstanding is not limited to the Vietnamese. In the past, there have been numerous posts on this blog, regarding other issues, where the poster thinks that the City Council is supposed to do the biding of whichever crowd has the majority in the gallery.

I certainly hope that these individuals are not successful in their attempt to overthrow an individual who was fairly elected, and is guilty of no malfeasance.

Posted by BlueFox
Saturday, December 15 at 08:19 PM
I don’t think they misunderstand the American political process at all. A bunch of people filled the room and expected politicians would vote their way.

Often, that is exactly what happens, especially for non-monetary issues.

It’s one of the reasons rich neighborhoods often have a lot more parks than poor ones, even within the same city.

Posted by Greg Perry
Saturday, December 15 at 10:15 PM
# 78
It already happened and it ended in 2006. Huntington won, Santa Cruz lost.

Based on USA today 5/15/2006 “"Surf City USA” is officially in Southern California, according to a federal agency that granted this town exclusive trademark rights despite challenges from northern rival Santa Cruz. “

After a lot of legal challenges through courts, Santa Cruz now use the name Surf City.

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, December 15 at 10:18 PM
Obviously, if Mayor McEnery weighs in on the subject with his broad past experience with the Vietnamese community, the issue perhaps would be more defined. Tom was very instrumental in helping my family’s business survives in 1985 when some Public Works construction threatened to bankrupt us. What did he do that was different then versus this administration now? We called City Hall, Tom came down, HE LISTENED ON WHY THIS ISSUE AFFECTED US PERSONALLY. HE ACT ACCORDINGLY, NOT JUST FOR OUR WHITE NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBORS. MY FAMILY WAS NOT EVEN REGISTERED TO VOTE, SO THERE IS NO BI-PARTISAN POLITICS OR LOBBYING INVOLVED. Amazing, huh?

There are passions in this blog including myself that flows back from one extreme to the other. As a 32 years San Jose residence, I am totally neutral on this Little Saigon issue. When I informed everyone in my extended household that our Mayor McEnery was putting his thoughts on this issue, my family chimed “Explain to Tom, at least he was fair to us, not like the current Mayor and those other 7 council members”. I have never written online until now and felt the responsibility to “enlighten” a whole new set of McEnerys to our Vietnamese heritage. We’re bringing strangers into our family room to meet everyone for the first time. There’s our uncle and aunt showing off their English, our talkative Grandma speaking Vietnamese, our grandpa on display on the strange altar along with Buddha, our gansta wanna-be brothers, our Mom that kept trying to feed them food with fish sauce and then.…OUR DAD with his war-pride, ever the hardened fighter that wishes he could be back in Vietnam to fight for Freedom and Democracy of our homeland (and he means it). He’s an electronic assembler now and we are proud of him sometime yet a bit ashamed of him for all his crazy ranting to everyone about how the Vietcong killed his family member, his platoon, his beloved country and all the atrocity that his kids did not witness firsthand. Still, we don’t know what these strangers would make of this dysfunctional family of ours with all our strange sound, sight, smell and stories. We hope for the best and prepared for the worst.

As ashamed as I was back then, I came to know him when he decide to defend this Little Saigon cause. It is because what he’s doing is defining who we are and our place in this great City of San Jose. The shame of a son is the pride of a Vietnamese American as I see EVERYONE of my immediate family, my friends, my American McEnerys that have taken the time to know me over the years united and retold in clarify the controversial November 20th votes with the same passion of April 30th, the fall of Saigon.

I’m not as passionate for the name as my father and other posters was. What I’m passionate is the issues that define the Little Saigon name and the unequivocal “digging in the sand” stance Madison Nguyen and members of Council take BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER the votes. JUST AS THE VIETNAM WAR WAS LOST ON THE POLITICAL FIELDS, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE DISDAIN AND HURT OF OUR COMMUNITY OVER HOW THIS NON-CONTROVERSAL NAMING ARE BEING USED AS POLITICAL FOOTBALL. IT REKINDLED HOW SOMETHING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HONORABLE ARE FUMBLED BY THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS. Without writing a novel, here are the compromises that I do know of:

1. Asked the City Council to cease the renaming and drop the issue altogether.
2. Proposal for a “Little Saigon Business District” was an unequivocal NO.
3. KEEP the Saigon Business District motion and let it pass unanimously. Add a friendly amendment to allow the RDA to go back to the community to pick the artwork, logo and NAME of the Banner by March 2008.
4. Let the community privately fundraise for the banner Little Saigon and grant easements to erect them.
5. Open dialogues for an alternate Little Saigon, possibly in smaller geographic or perhaps in other district.
6. Put on a ballot to vote Citywide or district wide.

Put it in perspective, some of us forecast this controversy and have tried in vain to find compromises so it wouldn’t get to this point of political posturing, hurt feelings and our Vietnamese Community gets dragged into this controversy, where everyone and their mothers have an opinion (most negative) over a simple issue. Until you step into our shoes and recognized OUR disappointment on November 20th at most of the elected officials that we assumed would do the right thing and follow democratic principles of government of the people, by the people, for the people, PLEASE GIVE US A MCENERY CHANCE AND BE OPEN MINDED. Civil Disobedience is not the way of my elders, but it’s a way that leads to “enlightened” dialogues when every other attempt failed. It’s the only way, USING THE SAME DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE, to wake her out of her doltrum and tell her and the rest of the Council that we, the Vietnamese American ARE RIGHT HERE and they really need MORE SITDOWN COMMUNICATION, not more politic-ing.

Madison let us know loud and clear who is in charge of District 7 on how decisions are made. She doesn’t tolerate dissent or community inputs in her short 2 ½ years on the council. She resents the community’s distaste for the original name of Vietnam Town Business District that benefit the Vietnam Town development and not the Little Saigon that she has MADE AS A CAMPAIGN PROMISE in 2005. Madison has lobbied successfully for a name that she knew would put the community at odd and into a whirlwind of controversy. IT WAS INTENTIONAL AND DELIBERATE. Her supporters called her “gutsy” that night. We felt otherwise. She’s appointed to lead and to represent. Yet, in her defining moment, she abandoned her democratic principles and put her Vietnamese Community on display in the most negative of lights. I haven’t heard one iota of soothing, healing words or LEADERSHIP to right the ship and calm the disappointed crowd… JUST MORE DIGGING IN THE SAND.

Posted by
Sunday, December 16 at 12:11 AM
Something Right Remains Right
What’s in a name? Some names or, generally, some words happen to mean a lot to a group of people and touch there deepest feelings, cause pain, anger and despair, or promote hope. In this case, it involves the name “Little Saigon”.

Initially, I preferred the name “Saigon Business District”. Setting aside my preference and learning how to act within the democratic process, I started listening to the majority. I left Saigon on April-1975 on an American boat. I did not see any torture, any inhumane treatment which people of my homeland went through in their homes, in prisons, in re-education camps, days, months, years after that dark month of April-1975. I did not witness any barbaric behavior on the part of those winners, Their behavior was so barbaric and indescribably cruel that ordinary people risk their lives to escape the communist government no matter what … these survivors became political refugees scattered all over the world. Their living nightmares will stay with them for the rest of their lives. Somehow, pre-determined I guess, the name “Little Saigon” has became the symbolic “Capital of Vietnamese Political Refugees”. Special significance is attached to a certain name or word. Americans love the name “Fourth Of July”. Jewish-Americans hate the name Hitler. Vietnamese-Americans hate the traitor Ho-Chi-Minh. Black people hate the word “negro” … Those social facts are realities that are to be accepted because they so profoundly impact people’s feelings.

Joshua Molina of San Jose Mercury News objectively wrote: “Sunday’s crowd was one of the largest in San Jose in recent years to address a municipal issue” and “… Little Saigon supporters were clearly in the majority among those with roots in Vietnam”. Before the Council vote, 91% of 46oo respondents in a San Jose Mercury News poll supported the name “Little Saigon”. An unusual group of more than 1000 “Little Saigon” supporters packed the City Council Conference room the night the Council vote took place (Nov-20). Last Sunday (Dec-9), more than 2000 “Little Saigon” supporters gathered to denounce the name approved by the City Council. Since the purpose of the naming, as Mayor Chuck Reed clearly stated, is to recognize the success of the Vietnamese community in the City of San Jose, the voice of the majority of Vietnamese living in San Jose should be the determining voice. The name “Little Saigon” affects the feeling of Vietnamese, a feeling which many young Vietnamese and non-Vietnamese people do not have.

I believe Councilwoman Nguyen was not politically naive in failing to anticipate the controversy. She understood well that an overwhelming majority supported the name “Little Saigon” for the Story-Road business section. Perhaps, some dark political pressure orevented her from proposing the name to the City Coucil. The reason given by Coucilwoman Nguyen to promote her proposed name confuses the City Council and does not stand strong. The name “Little Saigon” has proven to be successful and has attracted a vast non-Vietnamese clientele. Having rejected the name “Little Saigon”, Councilwoman Nguyen showed that she did not honor the democratic process embraced by the City Council, she disrespected the feeling of Vietnamese Political Refugees around the world, and she turned her back to the community that voted her into office. Anti-democratic process leads to corruption and back-door dealings. Disrespecting the majority’s feelings is the same as making racially insensitive remarks and gestures. What Coucilwoman Nguyen did is what Kathy Cole did in 1994. A recall, if it is to be done, is not an over-reaction. It is the right thing to do to protect our democratic process, our Sunshine Law and our anti-corruption policy due to dirty politics. However, both sides should dialogue in an open-minded manner in order to avoid to an another ordeal for District 7.

Also, as a small-business owner, I would say, small businesses change hands frequently, that is, business owners come to go; but the entire community stays and supports the businesses. It is appropriate to listen to the entire community rather than to any tangible group of business owners.

A recall, successful or not, depends on many factors. However, something right remains right.

I believe that the Sunday’s crowd was just a proper way for the Vietnamese community to ask the City Council to revisit the issue.

Respectfully Yours
A resident of San Jose

QuangMinh Pham
Dec-12-2007

QuangMinh Pham P.O. Box 611267 San Jose, CA 95161.

Posted by
Sunday, December 16 at 02:16 AM
You reap what you sown.

Madison is behaving like a 5 years old that did something bad, yet blames her brother for it. The cornerstone that she’s brought into this controversy is really not the name issue, but rather political favors for several rich political supporters that are heavily vested in the success of Vietnam Town, among others. The renaming has economic significance in identifying and tying in the area to the Vietnam Town development using taxpayer’s dollar instead of her developer’s friend money. If Vietnam Town succeeds, it would put millions into her “constituents” pockets and allows her the financial freedom to run for higher office or retire well-connected after her terms. Everyone in the community knows that most of her close-knits of advisors that she brought to her swearing in ceremony are to name a few, Dr. Ngai Xuan Nguyen, Sonny Nguyen from Nha Magazine, Lap Tang from Grand Century and Vietnam Town, Trung Lam from GD Commercial and Anh Tran from Hoi Quang Nam - all with real estate interests that stand to benefit from her council votes in years to come. They formed an all elitist pack with that all-knowing wink and nod to Madison Nguyen. Yet these are the supporters of the Saigon Business District. They get all-exclusive access to the Council woman at a moment’s notice while the rest of her poorer constituents need to be screened by staff members that rarely respond. City Hall 18th floor knows this also.

The reality of District 7 is Madison humors the Vietnamese community for the votes and the perceived unity but is quickly turnoff by all the petty community requests that she feels is beneath her. She is quick to act with land use and real estate related decisions as well as business decisions that secured future political donors to her supposedly growing political clout. Case in point – her big showing of wealthy Vietnamese donors at a summer Bill Clinton event. Have anyone notice the great divide here? Last Sunday, the Mayor and Madison along with several council members attends and honors at the City Hall Rotunda a new group of Northern California Vietnamese Community laced with rich or well connected Vietnamese that do business in Vietnam and happens to support her privately on all issues (roughly 50 + people). At the other side is the GI Forum event of the Committee for Little Saigon full of good intentioned Vietnamese, but no visible well to do folks (2,000 + people).

Madison tried to sneak in the Vietnam Business District naming quietly without informing the community. Only the owner of Vietnam Town showed up at City Council on June 5th (the date of the runoff election where all eyes are on Hon Lien and Kansen Chu instead). She got caught with her hands in the cookie jar and was being spiteful with her “watchers” by naming something that she knows they would hate. This is done as retaliation of her foiled plan to honor a few well to do real estate owners, not the community that she serves in. The truth behind all this controversy is the community that walked precincts and hang lawn signs are disenfranchised with a council member that plays to a different audience, the white mainstream, the political hotshots and the well to do instead of her district voters. They are calling her out on this issue as a final test on whether or not she is playing the community like a yo-yo and she’s failed the test miserably.

Madison is not naïve and knows how to use her damsel in distress act and the media to her advantage as she has done in the past. When she wants something in the news, it is all over the Vietnamese media, NBC11, CBS5, Channel 2 Fox Network, ABC11, Metro, San Jose Business Journal, the Merc. When she wants something quiet, no one knows until the issues is well decided her way. She is famous for using surrogates to demand, threaten or cajole viewpoints that align with her so she looks as the great uniter of the Vietnamese community. Watch in the coming days on how she will continue to insult members of the community and ask her surrogates to command an aura of invincibility and majority with soundbites, TV, blogs, etc… It’s no wonder Vic Aljourny is already on board to play slash and burn politics.

It’s friend like her that the community doesn’t need enemy. She is pouring gasoline into the fire of this recall that really didn’t have much legs to begin with when she push too hard with her arrogance, her imflamatory rheterics and her surrogates like Dr. Ngai Nguyen egging her on to further embarrass these activist members. The community is tired of another 3 years of destructive division by what could have been a great one. Heck, put anyone new in district 7 and we’ll be fine with it.

Posted by
Sunday, December 16 at 03:55 AM
Hello people,

(Tom) McEnery was named for the San Jose Convention Center because his contribution to the city of San Jose.

Dissidents from Viet Nam fled Saigon in 1975 and settle down in San Jose have contributed alot to City of San Jose.

“Little Saigon” is their request.

This city should listen to “the Voice of this Vietnamese Community”. Madison came from Fresno. She got elected because she was endorsed by the “old Viets”. They always want to promote the young Vietnamese to get involve with politics. Madison has no root in San Jose. But she was the right choice at that time.

After Madison got elected, she has been “contacted and manipulated” by the gangs of the “Paloma Cafe” which is located in Grand Century mall on Story Road

To the Vietnamese Community, there are rumors that this Paloma Cafe Gangs has connection with the Vietnamese Communists. They “ru+?a tie^`n” in San Jose. The oversea Vietnamse have sent 4 billion dollars to Vietnam last year. The Communists give fake currency to people in Vietnam and keep dolars in the USA. The Communists have been using this money to invest in real estates. They also use this money to “buy” the elected officers and the Vietnamese who are willing to be on their side.

(If you want to know more about Vietnamese Communist’s business, check out the closuse of Hoa Phat Trading Inc. in San Jose. Hoa Phat was doing business of sending a lot of money from California to Vietname in 1980s, 1990s. They has disappeared now)

In addition, Madison got married with an international student from Vietnam 6 months ago.

We know to whom Madison has contacted!

It’s not only “Little Saigon” name! It’s more than just a name! Madison has betrayed the Vietnamse community politically.

We, the Vietnamese, know our business. We do our business. You do your business. This city own the Vietnamese community alot of things. Look at the Vietnamese population in San Jose and look, we don’t even have a Vietnamese judge in the municipal court !

Give me a break~~~ Don’t preaching us do this, do that, don’t abuse recall, be respecful to Madison, be polite to Chuck Reed. Hell, Vietnamese people in San Jose are mad, mad, mad. When people get mad, they can do whatever they want to do.

It is the elected officers who should come to us, bargain with us if they want to get elected in the next election. We know that. Period.

Madison should resign. Why don’t you guys ask Madison to do it. Instead of preaching here, you should do this, you should do that

Here is the cartoon of the day:
http://www.vietbao.com/Images/Upload/2007_11/hh_20071125_1.gif

Posted by in san jose
Sunday, December 16 at 08:49 AM
#82: I am well aware that the Surf City issue ended in court. My point was simply that this disagreement re naming the business district “officially” seems very much the same type of dispute to me.

Posted by
Sunday, December 16 at 09:50 AM
79 Frustrated Finfan

Gun fire? Gun Fire?
My dear man or woman, you own far too much hatred.
I went to chronicle the Immigration March. Photograph after photograph reveled in my lens a child on Dad’s shoulders waving a United States flag. Human pyramid building 5 men tall, all with United States Flags at the Arena Green. Some one made a fortune selling Chinese made United States flags that day.
300,000 people certainly convinced me that we would be alright as a funtional city.
The out pouring of solidarity was very healing. Hope was the theme of the day.
When it was over every one went back to their respective lives without guilt or anger.
Finfan, you might try forgiveness, starting with self first. Some day you might become old and feeble and have to ask for help from an individule that cares very much about his or her efforts to confort you. For now, eat your vegetables.
A thought we might consider, is that perhaps the great wall between two trading partners is being built to keep people from leaving rather than keeping them out.
Just a thought for a perfect Sunday in our little Village of San Jose de Guadalupe.

The Village Black Smith

Posted by gil Hernandez
Sunday, December 16 at 11:36 AM
Mr. Hernandez,

Thanks for helping make my point. I wrote a post intended to demonstrate that logic is not immune to the forces of human emotions and you promptly responded by demonstrating great emotion diluted by not a trace of logic.

The analogy I offered, in an effort to demonstrate how differing perspectives can trump logic, was about the reaction that I and others had to seeing the Mexican flags. It was not meant to reflect your reaction, as you obviously have a vastly different perspective, one that apparently goes to red alert the moment anyone mentions Mexicans illegally in this country. But, I understand, you couldn’t help yourself, just as the older generation of Vietnamese-Americans can’t help themselves when it comes to the use of the name, Saigon. That was the issue we were discussing, remember?

As for your camera work, here are some photos taken by others, along with some text detailing a very different “outpouring of solidarity” than yours:

http://www.aztlan.net/la_gran_marcha.htm

Posted by frustrated finfan
Sunday, December 16 at 03:20 PM
#81. You hit the right button. This is why Vietnamese people feel very frustrated and suspicious, “Could this be more than just a non-monetary issue?”

Posted by in San Jose
Sunday, December 16 at 07:19 PM
GUN FIRE? GUN FIRE? That “WAS” your point! Come out and play with the rest of us,
Mr. Frastrated. Leave your masked hood at home.
The Village Black Smith

Posted by Gil Hernandez
Sunday, December 16 at 07:40 PM
"The out pouring of solidarity was very healing. Hope was the theme of the day.”

I imagine hope indeed filled the hearts of all the A.N.S.W.E.R marxists that organized the rallies, like pro-illegal-immigration front man Juan Jose Gutierrez.

http://www.workers.org/2007/world/tijuana-1213/

It’s quite a nice read.

It seems there’s a bit more to illegal immigration than we’ve been told - although I’m expecting a multipage Mercury News expose on the subject any day now.

Posted by Novice
Sunday, December 16 at 10:13 PM
To #48: We are fighting the Vietnamese communists in Vietnam, right here from the USA. We are fighting them in our own way, with our own peaceful methods, and I don’t have to tell you how, because that’s not your concern. We want to help the people back in Vietnam and make our old country a democratic country, for the unlucky people of our own race who remain in Vietnam, and we left them some decades ago when we came here. However, before we can do that, we have to prove to the communists in Vietnam that the USA’s government is more democratic and better than the Vietnamese government, otherwise they will laugh at us and tell us: “what do you have to teach us? Can you realise democracy for yourself?”. The fact that Madison and Chuck Reed did not practice democracy is a shame, not only for our Vietnamese community, because we made a mistake when we helped her to get elected, but it’s a shame for the USA as well. How can the U.S. tell other people in the world to respect human rights and teach them democracy, if the government officers in the U.S. crush our democracy dream that we had when we came here?
This issue is not the issue of Vietnamese immigrants anymore, but an issue of all Americans in this country. That’s because the democracy’s principle itself is challenged here. Through this story, I see that democracy is not something static that one can take for granted, but it’s a dynamic process that involves everyone who live together in a place, in a country.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Monday, December 17 at 12:02 AM
Attorney Minh Steven Dovan’s letter to SJ Mayor and Councilmembers
Nov 22, 2007
Dear San Jose Mayor Reed and Council members:

Yesterday (Tuesday evening November 20, 2007) the City Council of San Jose, California, (the city outside of Vietnam with the largest Vietnamese population) voted 8-3 for the name Saigon Business District (SBD). This was in total disregard for the will of the people in the community who had chosen by a ratio of more than 7 to 1 in the CITY’S OWN SURVEY preferring the name Little Saigon over SBD. Although you the mayor, and council member Madison Nguyen claimed (on the record) that SBD was a “compromise” however the fact is that this was NOT a compromise. Little Saigon came in FIRST and SBD came in LAST (gathering only 5%) on the survey list of 6 choices as was clearly and correctly pointed out by council member Pete Constant at the meeting. Even the respectable San Jose Mercury News Survey with more than 4600 responses showed Little Saigon was preferred by 91% of the respondents!! I am very disappointed that you as mayor, did not and could not show the courage or fortitude of a true leader. Apparently the survey by your own city agency and the passionate and deafening pleas of the 1000+ concerned community members who appeared at the hearing (in the council chamber and overflowed into the rotunda and halls) to support the name Little Saigon had no effect or influence on you or Ms. Nguyen or other council members who voted for SBD. The pride and ego that you and Madison Nguyen exhibited are truly incomprehensible. The other council members who voted with you and MADISON NGUYEN are Vice Mayor DAVID CORTESE, council members SAM LICCARDO, NORA CAMPOS, JUDY CHIRCO, FORREST WILLIAMS and NANCY PYLE. However, I must commend the three INDEPENDENT and OPEN MINDED council members Messrs. PIERLUIGI OLIVERIO, PETE CONSTANT, and KANSEN CHU who voted in DISSENT, and who voted AGAINST Madison Nguyen’s motion. They followed their conscience, their hearts and their minds to reflect the true will of the people. The name Little Saigon embodies a strong commercial appeal, historical significance, community spirit, and cultural attractiveness. There is a fervent and overwhelming belief in the community that there were deals made behind the scene to get Ms. Nguyen’s motion passed, i.e., Quid-Pro-Quo arrangements. If that was the case, then democracy has clearly been assaulted and violated. The previous night (Monday), I had interviewed you Mr. Mayor on our Vietnamese TV talk show, and I had been very neutral, cordial, and easy in my questioning of you in order to be fair to you and to afford you ample time to talk. However, Tuesday night when I attempted to speak (as a private citizen) at the council meeting, you quickly cut me off after a very short time when you realized that I was going to recommend the name Little Saigon to the council. I had no chance to express my view, and I deeply resent your unprofessional, unfair, and totally un-democratic act. I had hoped you would have had the decency and
professionalism to allow me to speak for the same duration as other individual speakers at the open public forum; the ultimate place and symbol of true democracy. But that was not to be. San Jose deserves representatives with honesty and integrity, and we need and want public servants who do not exhibit such hubris and arrogance of power (remember the Hon Lien vs. Kansen Chu District 4 race ?).

Sincerely,

Minh Q. Steven Dovan, Esq.
AKA Luat Su Do Van Quang Minh (Vietnamese name).

P.S. This is the FIRST time in 5 decades of living in the U.S. that I have had to write to a Mayor or any city council member. However Madison Nguyen’s and your overall blatantly deceptive and un-democratic conduct on this issue compelled me to write this e-mail.

P.P.S. All media services: please freely print and disseminate this e-mail as you see fit.

Vietnamese media: please also see the accompanying Vietnamese translation. Feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss or have any questions.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Minh Q. Steven Dovan

Attorney at Law

4 N. Second Street, Suite 280

San Jose, CA 95113-1323

Ph. (408) 287-2555

Fax (408) 287-2564

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 12:04 AM
Please read the following article from John Vu to understand of the “Little Saigon” matter. It is not the issue of the name, it is the cover up behind and the broken democratic process at the San Jose City Hall.

Part I

Lost in Translation - The Little Saigon Conflict
• John Vu*

Little more than 20 years ago, as a young intern working in Washington DC for US House of Representatives, I had an opportunity to meet up with the larger than life. Congressman Tip O’Neill, one of the longest serving House Majority Leaders in history. I asked for his autograph along with his famous adage: “All politics is local”. He was amused by the request and chuckled: “And remember one more thing, all politics is personal.”

EDITOR’S NOTE:

The rest of this article can be viewed here.

http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:37 AM
http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:39 AM
John Vu,

Part III

http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:41 AM
John Vu,

Part IV

http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:43 AM
Part V

John Vu

http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:46 AM
Part VI

John Vu

http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:48 AM
Final

John Vu

http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 10:51 AM
Steve (on post #77),

What country do you live in? North Korea? Or better yet, what planet did you just land from?

What part of “elected REPRESENATIVE” don’t you understand? These people are simply paid REPRESTATIVES to REPRESENT the majority of the people so long as their views don’t infringe upon the rights of the minority. This is what a constitutional republic is all about. This is how America works. I hope your high school taught you that (assuming you graduated from it already).

And forget about this baloney talk about elected REPRESENTATIVES voting their own mind. This is nothing more than a code word for corrupt wanna-be dictators’ poor excuse for advancing their own interests in communist Viet-Nam, China and North Korea. One has to ask “what powerful foreign interest group paid these corrupt officials to do their bidding against the will of the people.”

You can certaintly take that back to the dictators in Viet-Nam.

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 10:56 AM
#102 Luong Do,
In your post you chastise me for not knowing the true meaning of the “code words” behind this issue within the Vietnamese community.

To quote your post “And forget about this baloney talk about elected REPRESENTATIVES voting their own mind. This is nothing more than a code word for corrupt wanna-be dictators’ poor excuse for advancing their own interests in communist Viet-Nam, China and North Korea.”

Thank you for letting me know about this. In the future, I will have serious doubts about voting for another Vietnamese candidate, even if they appear to be the best qualified, as I apparently, according to you, don’t know their true agenda or where their true allegiance rests. And I was silly enough to think we were all loyal Americans first. Maybe Homeland Security and racial profiling are more of a necessary evil than I realized. Thanks for opening my naive eyes.

Posted by Steve
Monday, December 17 at 11:26 AM
#95-101 Luong Do and others

Please do not attempt to post complete articles from other sites and publications unless you are the author. You may quote the first few lines and post the web address where the entire article may be read, as I have done for you in #95. Otherwise, it is a violation of copyright and is against our policy to accept such postings.

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 12:01 PM
To #104 Steve: You did not get the point of Luong Do: The point is that whoever wants to be a dictator will manipulate people into voting for them, by telling them “I will represent you and your interests” then just do the opposite, and get away with it, if everybody wants to just obey them like you, regardless of what YOU REALLY want!
The people who are lazy or having a servile mind will elect representatives whom they worship, then let them do whatever they want, and will propagate the faulty reasonings such as “they are elected officials, therefore they should know better than us normal people” or “they are perfect so they will do everything for our best interests”.
Those people should go to live under a communist or an autocratic regime where they just need to obey, and they are happy with that.
And the wannabe dictators can be of any race, not only from the communist countries, don’t you understand such a simple truth as that?
Besides Madison Nguyen, Chuck Reed have also betrayed the trust of the Vietnamese community, and shamelessly crushed the hearts of the people who voted for him, and who came to the council meeting on 20 Nov. 2007 to support for the naming of “Little Saigon”. And, besides Chuck Reed and Madison, 6 other elected officials of San Jose council did the same thing, apparently mislead by Madison (and who knows the truth?)!!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Monday, December 17 at 02:50 PM
To #105 Thuan Do,
You state “whoever wants to be a dictator will manipulate people into voting for them, by telling them “I will represent you and your interests” then just do the opposite, and get away with it, if everybody wants to just obey them (our elected officials) like you, regardless of what YOU REALLY want!”

Guess what, Thuan, we live in a place called a democracy. It is not a perfect place, but it has checks and balances, and rules and order. What I “REALLY want” is not what matters, although you obviously see it differently. So in your world is it ok to drive 100 mph through a neighborhood because that is what is good for you, or should you follow the rules decided upon by our elected officials?? Is it ok not to pay your taxes because that is not good for you, or do you have to follow the rules decided upon by our elected officials?

I think the biggest irony in your statement is the complete hypocrisy you demonstrate. Having lived through the 60’s and 70’s there were plenty, if not most, american citizens, who were completely against allowing any Vienamese immigration into the United States. If not for the elected officials, who allowed Vietnamese refugees into the United States against the popular will of the people you may not even be here today. Would you call these elected officials corrupt or dictators?

I find your statements completely self serving and show an ignorance of how a democracy works. If you don’t like Madison please cast your vote for another person next time around.

Posted by Steve
Monday, December 17 at 04:48 PM
# 102
Please cool down. I think you expect to much from the system. Arguing your way “What part of “elected REPRESENATIVE” don’t you understand? These people are simply paid REPRESTATIVES to REPRESENT the majority of the people so long as their views don’t infringe upon the rights of the minority. This is what a constitutional republic is all about. This is how America works. I hope your high school taught you that (assuming you graduated from it already). “ do not help your cause.
If you look at the bigger picture from the US President then:
- If President Bush listen to the US people, then he already pull the US army out of Iraq long time ago.
- If the US Congress listen to what US people want, then we should not worry about health care any more.
- In fact if both the President and congress always listen to what the people want then we never have to pay taxes, because I never know a person who claim that he/she loves to pay taxes, but every preson I known hate taxes, or claimed that he/she paid too much taxes ....
I know those examples are little bit extremes but that’s why we have to understand the people that we voted to the office, sometime must vote for what they believe is right, not what vote for the will of their constituents?
One thing you have to remember, during the election, those candidates will say anything to get your votes. But can they really do it, that’s different things all together. After you get elected, when you sit in the office, when you look at all the facts that are presented in front of you that before you did not have chance to look at, your view can change a lot.
The school taught you one thing, that’s theory. But the real world and history also taught you that “Money talks” and the more money you have to spend, the more influence you can buy. Just look at all the lobbies firms that surrounded all levels of government, legislature from federal, state, county down to city hall.
So in US, what really come down to is “Nothing is free”

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, December 17 at 04:48 PM
Holy controversy, Batman, this is a pot that won’t stop boiling!!!!!

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 06:00 PM
To 106 Steve: Yes we will follow the laws to recall Madison. The laws of the United States have provisions that permit to fight against dictators, liars, and dishonest public officers, and and we have to use it, in this case. Period! Democracy will prevail! Enough is enough!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Monday, December 17 at 07:14 PM
#109- Unless “Orange County” is the new name for another part of Story Road, you can’t recall Madison. Since you’re not a resident of her district, it’s apparent that you have absolutely no say in this matter.

You are proving the point of many who say that this tempest is being stirred up by out-of-towners. Please attend to your own local politics.

Posted by anonymous blogger
Monday, December 17 at 08:58 PM
1) Steve wrote: “Guess what, Thuan, we live in a place called a democracy.”

Sorry Steve, we don’t live in a democracy; we live in a constitutional Republic.

2) Steve wrote: “I find your statements completely self serving and show an ignorance of how a democracy works.”

Steve please, don’t be too quick to jump the gun here if you yourself are the ignorant one...(hint: read my response to your first comment).

3) Steve wrote: “So in your world is it ok to drive 100 mph through a neighborhood because that is what is good for you, or should you follow the rules decided upon by our elected officials?? Is it ok not to pay your taxes because that is not good for you, or do you have to follow the rules decided upon by our elected officials?”

No Steve, we all have to drive safely and pay taxes because we voted for them. WE (READ --> THE PEOPLE) decide upon the rules, NOT the elected REPRESENTATIVES. Now how fast will be the speed limit or how much taxes we have to pay are a different story. But once the people agreed to a certain number, the elected REPRESENTATIVES have to listen to the voice of the people and carry out the law whether they like it or not. And since we are living in a constitutional Republic (not a democracy, Steve), if the law violates the rights of the minority (e.g. their lives or properties are threatened), the law cannot be enforced. Otherwise, the majority of the people wins.

If the majority of the people wants the speed limit to be 35 mph, then it will be. If after the vote is all casted, some corrupt politician decides to increase it to 45 mph because of under-the-table-money from some business people, then we are dealing with a dictator here. Get him/her out!!!

4) Steve wrote: “In the future, I will have serious doubts about voting for another Vietnamese candidate, even if they appear to be the best qualified, as I apparently, according to you, don’t know their true agenda or where their true allegiance rests. And I was silly enough to think we were all loyal Americans first. Maybe Homeland Security and racial profiling are more of a necessary evil than I realized…

...Having lived through the 60’s and 70’s there were plenty, if not most, american citizens, who were completely against allowing any Vienamese immigration into the United States. If not for the elected officials, who allowed Vietnamese refugees into the United States against the popular will of the people you may not even be here today.”

You like racism, Steve? LOL I feel some love here...LOL

5) Steve wrote: “Thanks for opening my naive eyes.”

“Ignorant” is a better word. Now please, know the difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic.

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 09:04 PM
To Vu Nguyen (from post #107).

Vu: “I think you expect too much from the system.”

Yes Vu, all responsible citizens must expect their elected officials to do their job and represent their constituents…

Anything beyond that is nothing more than a corruption of the system. And don’t give us none of this “well, the politicians know more than we do” or “well, they’re only acting in the best interests here.” BIG BALONEY!!!

The only thing corrupt politicians know more than the average man on the street is how to stuff their greedy pockets with blood $$$ from either Big Business, gangsters or foreign agents. All under the table, of course...And they sure have the best interests in their mind whenever they betray their constituents: THEIR best interests, and not of those whom they’re suppose to represent.

You cite many fine examples, Vu, fine examples of how corrupt the American political system has become. The Great Founding Fathers (may our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST bless their good Christian souls) must be turning in their graves right now if they could see what a mess we have become! We are becoming less of a Constitutional Republic and more of an Imperial Empire, all at the expense of the average American citizen. SHAME ON US ALL FOR NOT FIGHTING AGAINST THESE GLOBAL-ORIENTED CORRUPT TRAITORS!!!

2) Vu wrote: “The school taught you one thing, that’s theory. But the real world and history also taught you that “Money talks” and the more money you have to spend, the more influence you can buy. Just look at all the lobbies firms that surrounded all levels of government, legislature from federal, state, county down to city hall. “

I say, “THROW THEM ALL OUT. THROW ALL THOSE CORRUPT WEASELS OUT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE DOWN TO CITY HALL!!”

They bring nothing but shame to this once-great Christian nation! They don’t have America’s best interests in their mind, but only their own!

If they can get away with this little incident here in San Jose with the Viet community, they will get the Whites, Blacks, Latinos and others next. And to that, I say to Hell with them all. I’ll be fighting until the very end.

Many White-Americans have become disillusioned with their own system over the years because of all the corruption and have totally given up the fight. Well, I’m not!!! I may be one man, but I’m fighting the good fight until the very end, NO MATTER WHAT THE ODDS!!!

Amen.

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 09:33 PM
Johnmichael O’Connor, will this big lid do the trick? NOT!!!

LOL I appreciate a good humor here and there.

Posted by
Monday, December 17 at 10:01 PM
To 110 anonymous blogger: Your voice sounds very familiar to me: It reminds me of the communist leaders in Vietnam who say: “The US should not involve itself with human rights matters in Vietnam, because each country is different (and of course human rights violations in Vietnam is not of your concern!)”
They also say: “Reactionists overseas always incite honest citizens inside the country to do bad things (peacefully demanding freedom and democracy) and create trouble to the nation.”
And: “children of the nation, mind your own business, and don’t get involved with politics, (or else....) “
Is that the reason why you don’t want to reveal your true name?
Look at the croud of 2000 people who gathered at the GI Forum last Sunday: The angriest people are not from Southern California! Who made them angry? Can I ?
http://www.nguoiviet4phuong.com/anhduong/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1776&Itemid=94

I believe that tomorrow at lunch time there will be another demonstration in front of the San Jose City Hall, and of course it’s not incited by outsiders!
http://littlesaigonsj.blogspot.com/

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Monday, December 17 at 11:19 PM
To #112 Do,
Here is the Merriam Webster definition of a democracy “a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections”.
Sorry Luong, we do live in a democracy.

Also, please don’t twist things around and play the race card when you dont like what is being said. That is disgusting. The facts are that if we did not have strong leaders who showed bravery in voting against what popular opinion was back in the 60’s and 70’s, many Vietnamese would not have been allowed to immigrate here, yet now you want to use popular opinion to throw Nguyen out of office. It is a complete hypocrisy.

Posted by Steve
Tuesday, December 18 at 05:46 AM
Luong Do #113: I don’t think they have made a lid big enough for this boiling pot.

Posted by
Tuesday, December 18 at 09:52 AM
Tom asked us all:"A Needless Battle?”. Probably would not have happened had Madison Nguyen simply withdrawn her request for an offical city name and let the shopowners fight it out among themselves.

It has shown many of us the depth of emotion surrounding and engulfing the Vietnamese community in California.

The question now has changed to:An Endless Battle?

Posted by
Tuesday, December 18 at 09:55 AM
To 115 Steve,
Your point is irrelevant in this matter. The US had a moral duty to receive Vietnamese people here, after the Fall of South Vietnam. Period! Nothing to compare with this small story of a traitor Madison who thought she was a queen all powerful! We will bring her down!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Tuesday, December 18 at 11:32 AM
Steve #115: actually, the definition you quoted is the “b” definition in my edition of Websters, and all others, I suspect.

The “a” definition is “government by the people; esp: rule of the majority”.

The “b” definition you cite more accurately defines a “representative democracy”.

No educated person could possibly think that there exists and true democracy--government directly by the people--anywhere in the world; despite Dubya’s constant assertions that we are bringing “democracy” to Iraq.

The USA is a constitutional republic, always has been, and has NEVER been a democracy.

Indeed, the Founding Fathers were quite clearly UNdemocratic. Look at who could vote-- male property owners only, until a few amendments to our beloved constitution.

Nice try, Steve, but no cigar.

Posted by
Tuesday, December 18 at 04:04 PM
To Luong Do (from post # 112).
I admire the way you want the politic system should be. As I know, in this world, right now no country has reach that yet. Then I just curious:
1- Let say the city or someone gather enough signatures, so they will put this name issue out for all San Jose’s voters to vote. If the people of San Jose vote down this name and also vote for from now on the City of San Jose can not name any part of the city for any ethnic group ? Are you going to accpet the will of people ?
2- Let say your recall of Council Woman Madison Nguyen gathered enough signatures so an election is organized for her replacement. Let say that if Madison Nguyen run again or she run for different position (maybe higher) and she win, are you going to accept the will of people or you will want to organize a recall again ?
In politic, anything is possible, so it’s not far fetch. Special if you have backing from the political party, labor union and big business.

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, December 18 at 04:08 PM
JMO 119,

Here is a definition of democracy that backs my point. http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Vsp9AYWir18J:encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861603633/democracy.html+democracy+definition&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

I am sure you and I could continue this semantical point and continue to find references to back each other’s position.

Aren’t you the least concerened about the tone of some of these posts toward Nguyen and the charges she is corrupt because she did not vote their way? Whatever her decision the hatred and name calling shown towards her is disturbing, especially since some of this support is coming from outside this area. The sense I get from some of these posts is more of an overthrow rather than a recall.

By the way, JMO, while our city leaders will be tied up on this issue for God knows how long, the rest of the city and a majority of the citizens will pay the price. The big lesson to be learned here is that the city should stick to the basics; public safety and maintaining the infrastructure, and never again try to appease any particular group of people because it rarely works.

Posted by Steve
Tuesday, December 18 at 07:26 PM
Darn it Johnmichael, you beat me to slamming that Steve “No-Last-Name-or-Email” on the ground and breaking his logic backbone! You took the words right out of my mouth! LOL Good work, buddy.

Don’t you love it when Liberals get caught with their pants down cherry-picking certain facts to support their version of the Truth? LOL!!! And don’t hand me this baloney which that former-Pervert-in-Chief Clinton gave us about “America is a democracy.” That word-molester doesn’t even know what “sexual affair” is let alone something as complex as “democracy” or “constitutional republic” is.

I believe The Pledge of Allegiance goes something like this: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” Could someone please hand me a microscope because I sure don’t see the word “democracy” anywhere here…

Also, the American election system clearly kills this lie that America is a democracy. THINK: Electoral College.

During the Civil Rights era, the majority of people didn’t support what Martin Luther King was advocating, but since the rights of the minority was violated, the majority lost. The US Constitution gave equal rights to the minority in this Constitutional Republic of ours because the majority was violating the rights of the minority. Had this been a democracy, the majority would continue to step upon the minority and it would be perfectly legal to do so, although it is ethically unjust and socially dangerous for a civil war (as was found out by the ancient Greeks).

Cigar? I wouldn’t even give Steve a 5-cent bubblegum.

Madam Dictator Madi$on clearly violated the trust of the people and her agreement to represent them. There was no infringement on the rights of the losing minority party and so Little Saigon would have been chosen.

RECALL, RECALL, RECALL!!!

Posted by
Tuesday, December 18 at 07:48 PM
To the nameless person in post #110, Thuan Do and others have every GOD-given right to freely speak their mind. We live in a Constitutional Republic that gives us this freedom, unlike in communist Viet-Nam or Red china.

Learn to respect other people’s freedom of speech or go to North Korea.

Posted by
Tuesday, December 18 at 07:54 PM
To Vu Nguyen in post #120:

Answer to Question 1: I would really love to see this come down to a city-wide vote. And if the majority of the people accept this name or that name (as long as it isn’t profane), then let the people have it. We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a lawless communist society like Viet-Nam, so we have to respect the law of the land.

Answer to Question 2: Again, if that’s the (dumb) choice of the people to vote in a mini-dictator who arrogantly ignores the voice of the people, then LET THEM HAVE IT! And again, “we live in a Constitutional Republic, not a lawless communist society like Viet-Nam, so we have to respect the law of the land.”

My point: RESPECT THE LAW!!!! Write that on your forehead if you have to. Maybe Madi$on should take this advice. LOL

Vu wrote: “In politic, anything is possible, so it’s not far fetch. Special [Especially?] if you have backing from the political party, labor union and big business.”

Ahhhhhh the smell of a rotten political system caused by greedy self-deserving rats.

Don’t worry about it folks, we at the Recall Committee will put an end to all this mess.

Here’s my recommendation for our motto: “TODAY MADI$ON, TOMORROW CAPITOL HILL!!!”

Posted by
Tuesday, December 18 at 08:10 PM
#122 and #123 Loung Do.

President said,” a house divided against itself can not stand”. You have a leader in Madison, but you also have a “sectional conflict” an emergence of increasingly virulent and hostile complex sectioal ideologies.You are on a rapid severe and destructive cource.

You and your people need to avert a immediate political crisis.

Sectionalism is a tendency among a section of a community to blindly focus on the interest of a segment at the expence of a whole community, the vietnamese community.

This discussion reminds me of the story about the King of Siam (Thailand). The proud king is behind the times and his personality is fiercly chauvinistic, arrogant and is in conflict with the progressive intellegent and strong will of Anna (Madison) who is unafraid of you. The king tells Anna (Madison), “you are a very difficult woman”.

The way the king wants things is backwards when he tells her,” when I say sit! you sit! When I kneel, you Kneel ! Et Cetra, Et Cetra, Et Cetra !

Things turn around With the song,"shall we dance”.

Madison is that progressive strong willed and intellegent woman, she is not afraid.

The king very much wishes to absorb western knowledge, but is sometimes conflicted over how to reconcile western ways with his own.

Respect Madison and learn todance and you will both win. Your people elected her, she must have had something that attracted the voters. Before this all happened the S J Mercury news said she had a chance of becoming our next Mayor, that says a lot.

Give her a chance.

Posted by in san jose
Tuesday, December 18 at 09:40 PM
To Steve #121: in the link you gave us, the item 3:
3. democratic system of government: a system of government based on the principle of majority decision-making

Madison did not respect it: she decided herself a name against the majority of people (in the city’s poll and in other polls, for instance in the one on the San Jose Mercury Newspaper’s website), although she said that she would follow the city’s poll for the new name! If she not a liar and/or a traitor, then who is she?

If she is not corrupted, then she must be out of her mind to make that unpopular motion that jeopardizes her political career!
There is nothing heroic about choosing an unpopular name against a popular name for a small business area!

You say: “The big lesson to be learned here is that the city should stick to the basics; public safety and maintaining the infrastructure, and never again try to appease any particular group of people because it rarely works.” Wrong! It worked just fine in Orange County, because we do not have a Madison! She is the source of all troubles.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Tuesday, December 18 at 10:36 PM
#125 Richard: Your comparison does not stand: Anna serves the interest of the King, and they can agree; Madison serves the interest of whom (?) we don’t know, so no agreement can be possible!
The Vietnamese community in San Jose is not Sectionalist: If you look at the community meeting in post 114: We are united against Madison. We hope that Madison would not become a Mayor, or she will spit on us!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Tuesday, December 18 at 11:48 PM
Than Do,

I guess you don`t get it. Maybe you should get a dog, I have a dog, when I tell her to sit she sits. Et Ceatra, Et Cetra, Et Cetra.

Madison is not a dog.

Posted by in san jose
Wednesday, December 19 at 08:37 AM
Than Do,

“We” are you speeking of everyone in your district or a section of your district when you say we ?

There is a large Hispanic group in your district too. I have a lot of respect for the Spanish community as I have for the Vietnamese community as a “whole”, men and women, young and old, all views should be respected.

The
Hispanic communityi community has a very active Spanish Chamber of Commerce where issues similar to your issue is discussed. We are talking about street signs going up in their community too.

The Hispanic Community didn`t “Cry Wolf” when a Vietnamese American was elected as their Council person. The election was over and they accepted the results.

Than Do we can`t win all the debates we enter, we win some we lose some, but we respect each others positions. We respect each other.

Believe me, I`ve talked to other Vietnamese people that live in San Jose, many of them like and respect Madison, they are proud of her.

Posted by in san jose
Wednesday, December 19 at 10:05 AM
Than Do,

In the end of the play, the King and I, Ann gave up on the King, hopeless cause, but in the end she learned the King was on his death bed and she returned one last time to visit him. His last request kept her there, she knew at that moment the King realized his error and that things must change, “they both saw hope for change through the Kings son. She changed her mind and stayed in Siam to help the new young prince, the King to be.l

Posted by in san jose
Wednesday, December 19 at 10:35 AM
This story is harder to kill than the antibiotic-resistant staph.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 11:00 AM
To Richard Zappelli,

Madi$on is not a dog. She’s a MAD dog!!! She violated her oath to up-hold the law to REPRESENT her constituents. WHAT PART OF THAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND???

Listen Rich, not all of the voters can have the time to come to every city council meeting. That’s why we elect REPRESENTATIVES to REPRESENT our majority view (so long as it doesn’t violate the rights of the minority party—which in this Little Saigon case, it doesn’t). Ohhh, and we PAY them to REPRESENT us in the power seat, too.

So don’t give me this irrelevant “a house divided” speech from Lincoln! When over 90% of the people living in a house votes for a certain item only to have Dictator Madi$$$on deny them their votes, you have a grave situation of the people not being REPRESENTED by their elected REPRESENTATIVES. This is called a DICTATORSHIP. Elected officials are supposed to REPRESENT their constituents, and not arrogantly turn their backs on the voters.

Give her a chance? Many folks don’t know this but this is the SECOND TIME SHE PLAYED DICTATOR!!!! Three years ago, she voted on another issue (totally unrelated to Viet-American politics) and proudly proclaimed that SHE DOESN’T NEED TO ASK THE PEOPLE THEIR OPINION on it before voting. She SAID AND DID THIS!!!!

This is nothing but naked arrogant dictatorship when you have Dictator Madi$$$on not even bothering to ask the opinion of her voters on any matter before the vote. My father was so furious that she went on his local Viet radio show to rebuke her.

I give you another great quote from the Holy
Bible: “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:22). And all the arrogant fools will be recalled/impeached for their corrupt and sinful behavior against the people. Amen

Expect a recall very soon, Rich.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 11:19 AM
First boiling pot and now killer virus? LOL!!! It’s more like an addictive drug to me! I can’t stop, someone please help me!!! LOL!!!! My fingers love political blogging.

Hey JohnMicheal, I appreciate the occasional comic relief. We more good humor from Irish men. Now I know why I have lots of Irish friends. LOL

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 11:58 AM
To Luong Do,
You quoted a lot of bible, but your posts contained a lot of hate. It’s better than you do ot quote bible at all.

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, December 19 at 12:10 PM
luong Do,
Reading from another Johnmichael blog responce,”...Rolling Stones said,"you can`t always get what you want...EtCetra, EtCetra,EtCetra...but if you try, sometimes you get what you need”.

Again, when you say “We” are you speaking for the entire Vietnamese community, or 90% of district 7...?

I can`t think of anything funny to say to add some humor to this subject but, everyone needs to lighten up a lot. By the way I have 4 Irish nieces and nephews with beautiful blue eyes. I`d like to be your friend too, but don`t go after me because I`m defending Madison. She is a human being just like you and me. She deserves respect just like you and me.

Johnmichael. Staph infections can be a nuisance, but the good news is that they are usually not serious. But, I haven`t had any experiences with staph.

Posted by in san jose
Wednesday, December 19 at 01:36 PM
Speaking of the the Bible… wasn’t it “W” that tucked a Bible under his arm when he started singing that wonderful old song: “Drop da bombs. Drop da bombs. Drop da bombs.” ?

Posted by 13 mo & counting
Wednesday, December 19 at 02:25 PM
Hi Vu,

Pssss (whisphering to Vu’s ear)...the Holy Bible teaches that we must hate sin, evil, filthy thinking, liars, dirty sex perverts, murderers, cheaters, etc...I’m injecting some Truth in ya, buddy.

Need some proof? Start with these…

1) “As it is written, Jacob [who symbolises GOD’s holy serverts who fight against evil] have I loved, but Esau [who symbolises muderers, liars and all other unrepentant sinners] have I hated.” Romans 9:13

2) Read alll of Romans 1 (especially the last line, 32) to see how GOD Almighty deals with people of a corrupt and dirty nature who refuse to change their ways.

3) GOD kills the majority of mankind in the Great Flood. Genesis chapters 6 & 7

4) GOD destroys two whole evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (except for Lot’s family). Genesis 13:13; Genesis chapters 18 & 19; Jude 7; and 2nd Peters 2:6

5) GOD turned Lot’s wife into salt for disobeying HIM. Genesis 19:26 and Luke 17:32

6) GOD curses the Egyptians with lice, flies, painful boils, hail and fire from the Heavens, locusts, darkness, death of their livestock, and blood in the water. Exodus 7 thru 10

7) GOD killed ALL the Egyptian’s first borns. Exodus 11:5-10 and Exodus 12: 29-30

8) GOD killed Pharaoh. Exodus 11:9-10; Exodus 14:4-8 and Romans 9:17-18

9) GOD destroyed Pharaoh’s mighty army. Exodus 14:28

10) HERE’S ONE ESPECIALLY FOR MADI$$$ON: GOD KILLED Ananias and Sapphira for lying!!!!! Acts 5:1-11. (Madi$$$on, you lied about some people and organizations supporting your decision. Six of them came out and said they made no such claim. One of them is the millionaire Tony Dinh who stood in front of 2,000+ people at that recall meeting. Be careful of GOD’s hatred, Madam Dictator. You better fall down on your knees and REPENT!!!).

So you see, Vu, I have to warn people about GOD’s wrath and hatred towards anyone who doesn’t repent and continues to disobey HIS Holy Law. I do this out of nothing but love for others and a desire to make my society a better place. And you should do the same.

We must all REPENT and do no more evil if we want to reap HIS love and avoid HIS punishment. And we must NEVER let liars and crooks like Madi$$$on be our leaders to prove to HIM that we will NEVER accept such smash-mouth foulness in high office. Amen.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 03:12 PM
Moron Bush is a lying false conservative who fooled others into believing he’s a good Christian. He’s nothing more than a typical Blue-blood Yankee from CT who’s only interested in $$$ and power. I’m so sick of having voted for him twice.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 03:14 PM
Rich,

The majority of voters in all polls, including an official City of San Jose poll and the SJMN poll, wanted “Little Saigon.”

Regarding your relatives, I don’t care about your nephews, just give me the nieces! LOL!!!!
I’m just kidding here, buddy! LOL!!!

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 03:19 PM
Richard #135: Staph infections can result in amputations of limbs if they occur at a surgical incision site; they can result in death. I’d call both of those outcomes “serious”.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 03:30 PM
Six organizations had sent letters to Madison to retract their decision for supporting SBD name that she proposed, but she hided their letters and maintained the same list of “organizations” that supported her (when in fact most if not all of those organizations’ members did not know about the decision of the persons who claimed to “represented” them. After these members protested, the presidents had to write letters to retract the support)

One of the letters is made public here:

SET STRAIGHT LETTER
On September 9, 2007, I, Nguyen Luc, President of the Phu Yen Fellowship Association of Northern California, signed in a statement supporting New Saigon Business District without knowing that it was against the wish of Phu Yen Fellowship members (The wish of Phu Yen Fellows is “Little Saigon” should be named for the business area on Story Road, San Jose); now, after realizing that this goes against the majority; therefore, I would like to retract my support the name of New Saigon Business District on Story Road, San Jose, under the name of President of the Phu Yen Fellowship Association of Northern California.

NGUYEN LUC,
President of The Phu Yen Fellowship Association of Northern California .

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 19 at 04:12 PM
To #135 Richard: If you love Madison so much, I suggest you to protect her by telling her to resign, to avoid the humiliation of a recall. That’s the best thing she could do now, as she is rowing upstream.
Have you seen the people who manifested in front of the San Jose City Hall yesterday, under the rain ?
They will do the same thing every Tuesday, until Madison is no more sitting there.
http://www.nguoiviet4phuong.com/anhduong/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1855&Itemid=94

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 19 at 04:23 PM
If America’s a democracy, then why do we need the US Constitution for? Just dump it and be done with it.

The first ten amendments are known as the Bill of Rights which clearly protects minorities from the majority. This is the very essence of a Constitutional Republic.

Madison Nguyen violated the laws of both a democracy and a constitutional republic and must step down before she does any more harm. Not only that, but she lied to the people and her fellow council members to justify her backstabbing of the public.

Any law-loving American citizen must be insulted by her irresponsible and illegal behavior and would do his or her best to remove such an ugly blight on the American political system.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 19 at 06:44 PM
Some more light here: The communists from Vietnam hate the name of Little Saigon, because in Southern California, Little Saigon area, the law (issued by two cities) is that no Vietnamese communist officer from Vietnam can show off in public without having to pay for the police to protect him or her. Those cities would not pay for the police. The cities know that Vietnamese communist high officers are not welcome in Little Saigon, and they don’t want to take the risk to let them parading on the streets, as they might get rotten tomatoes or something else. That’s the reason why Vietnamese communists are allergic to the name of “Little Saigon”. When our council woman showed herself so stubbornly allergic to that name too, our community don’t want her, since she got the favors from the community to get her position, but she served who knows whom.

On the other hand, our community don’t want corrupted officers from Vietnam, after stealing lands and houses from the people, come here with their dirty money to invest in real estate for their old ages.

In this video, thousands of people lost their houses and lands for more than 20 years without anyone to help them to get decent reimbursement, enough to buy another place to live: They are now homeless (including children) and have manifested for long days in Saigon and Hanoi, and still got only empty promises :

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkkAC72lHtFUBtu1XNyoA?p=biá»u+tÃ¬nh+dÃ¢n+oan&y=Search&fr=ytff1-&ei=UTF-8

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 19 at 09:40 PM
I am sorry, the link in my previous post does not work. Please use these links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3QFaRSfQwU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H69GZXdTW-Q

http://www.vietnamexodus.org/vne/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2220

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 19 at 10:43 PM
Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse....they turn this into a religious war. God help us now!!!

Tom, you opened up a modern day Pandora’s Box with this post.

Posted by
Thursday, December 20 at 10:34 AM
To #146 johnmichael o’connor: There is no conflict between us, the outsiders. I just need to shed light on this matter, so that you understand that the Vietnamese people in San Jose did not behave like children, but they have reasons to do what they are doing.
Have a Merry Christmas Holiday, and a Happy New Year!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Thursday, December 20 at 12:27 PM
All:

This is not the first time that Madison Ngueyn did something stupid.

Those who want to recall her should look at her record and her bank statement. You will find some very interesting things.

You hard enough and you will have enough evidences for her to resign...and save yourself the money to recall her.

Posted by Dan V
Friday, December 21 at 02:43 AM
Nam Turk: You are right. I don’t know anyone who wants the name Saigon busienss District ...other than Madison and her supporters.

What kind of compromise do we have here when no one wants this name?

Posted by Dan V
Friday, December 21 at 02:44 AM
Check out DeCinzo’s cartoon on the subject in the current edition of Metro.

Posted by
Friday, December 21 at 03:20 PM
Dan V,

Madison needs to be strong and hold her own against all this political abuse.

I`ve gained a lot of respect for her thanks to you and your friends and your lack of respect for other peoples opinions .

You and your friends have been ruthlessly nasty. Gang mentality.

Posted by in san jose
Friday, December 21 at 05:59 PM
We Vietnamese people do not tolerate those who cooperate with the corrupted officers in Vietnam in order to use their dirty money to invest and develop the business area in San Jose, since the Vietnamese community will be the clients of those future shops. The dirty money from Vietnamese real estate investors came from their corruption or from the sale of lands and houses they robbed from the poor people who lost their places to live, and who manifest days and nights all over the country (Vietnam). Those cruel communist officers confiscated lands and houses to resell to foreign investors (for them to build plants or golf courses) without adequate reimbursements or relocating the poor creatures (families with children and elderly). Down with the nasty communists and their accomplices! If San Jose City gets rich owing to that dirty money, then it will be cursed, don’t you think so? We only want to prevent that muddy thing to happen to San Jose. That’s why we have to share what we know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBO-fPJVyIU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdTzwsoh1gQ

These pictures represent the current state of the people who lost their homes: The voice is from one of the victims: She asks for all media to help them to voice their truths: the police don’t like demonstrations, they often put them in jails and condemn them as “reactionists”. Among the homeless victims are war-invalids, and the families who lost all the men in the war:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRjav_c7afw

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Friday, December 21 at 09:39 PM
To #152 Thuan,
You and some others who have left posts here have a shove it down your throat thug-like mentality. Even if you have a good point it is truly lost in the way you deliver your message. You and your group may win the battle, but lose the war. You and others need to move on and not live in the past. You are doing damage and tearing apart your own community. At one point everyone in this country has ancestors who came to this country as immigrants, mostly because of poor treatment in other countries. Vietnamese will not be the first nor the last to do so. If you don’t move on all you will do is polarize and alienate your people against one another, and carry on a generational hatred such as has torn apart the Middle East for centuries.

Posted by Steve
Friday, December 21 at 11:24 PM
"Is there anything that you have done that is good, Nicholas? You came to Africa to play the white man. But we aren’t a game. We’re real. This room is real.”

Richard,
In a way, you’re starting to remind me of the English character in “The Last King of Scotland”.

Think about it. You’re here in the uber-surreal bay area lecturing people who came from a very real place where very real things happened.

And to put into some perspective, this dust up seems pretty mild compared to the Bush Derangement Syndrome the average bay area leftist is afflicted with.

Posted by Novice
Saturday, December 22 at 12:15 AM
Steve,
The Vietnam will sooner or later become non-communist, and peace will return to us all. We strongly believe in that, because that’s the evolution.
We are refugee, politically, and if the communist is still there, we remain refugees, because we can’t identify ourselves with the thiefs and the robbers. Our community is united and proud with that identity. The people who cooperate with the communists are very few, and that’s why the Vietnamese communist governement had to issue a resolution (#36) to pay for spies to infiltrate our community with sweet words, but we are not duped (not every time though).
Why the VN government needs to spend money to enforce that resolution #36? Because we always ask for human rights and democracy for Vietnam, and point out the violations in Vietnam. We have many friends among the US representatives and senators, such as Ms. Loretta Sanchez. She visited Vietnam several times and saw the dissidents or their families. Therefore, we are an obstacle for the communists in Vietnam, because they want to have the freedom to repress the people, but we are the whisle blower, for the international community.
You see, we do not live in the past, but in the present and future. We have to take care of our poor Vietnamese in Vietnam, who don’t have a voice, as I promised to myself before taking a small boat to come here (to Hong Kong, more exactly). Please refer to my story in this page:
http://www.butvang.org/TuCongSane.html

Because the communists treat farmers so badly, taking too much tax from them, taking lands and fields from them, many country girls had to get married to Taiwaneses, and suffer enormously:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/EC22Ae01.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRTFmaJLHrk

You know why we cannot identify ourselves with the communists in Vietnam. They pull back our country by centuries. Now many Vietnamese girls and boys become slaves, because of them.

Those who love the communists should come back to the country to live with them. That’s only fair.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, December 22 at 01:47 AM
To # 153 Steve,
Thanks for your understanding. That’s what young Vietnamese tried to explain to their elder people the way they protested most of the time will backfire, not only to the American people but even inside the Vietnamese communities. That’s why in most of the protest, you will see most of them are elder Vietnameses. You can see some young Vietnamese in there but look like they want to be some where else. They were there just because they have to drive their parents.

To #152 Do Thuan,
You wrote “We Vietnamese people do not tolerate those who cooperate with the corrupted officers in Vietnam in order to use their dirty money to invest and develop the business area in San Jose, since the Vietnamese community will be the clients of those future shops....” So I suggest you look at Little Saigon in Orange County first. I heard a lot of markets, shopping centers down there are owned by Vietnamese people still living in VN (related to leader or former leader of communist’s government). And that happen from 10 years ago. Then if you fight for San Jose why you do not fight for your own place Little Saigon ? I guess you still do business in those places because some of them are very popular. So if you want to clean the world, please clean your house first.

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, December 22 at 08:58 AM
Vu Nguyen: Of course if the communists from Vietnam who get rich by plundering the people and come here to own some businesses in Southern California, by the law, we can do nothing to them, but when we discover who they are, we boycott them. For instance, Mr. Nguyen Chi Hieu, after having dinner with the president of Vietnam at Dana Point, lost his job as president of the First Vietnamese American Bank, because of our protest to the Bank owners. The business owners from Vietnam have to furtively do their business, or they will lose their business one way or another. Dong Huong Supermarket is an example.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, December 22 at 12:11 PM
#144 wrote:"the law (issued by two cities) is that no Vietnamese communist officer from Vietnam can show off in public without having to pay for the police to protect him or her.”

Thuan Do, do you seriously expect ANYONE to believe there is a LAW in two cities in Orange County requiring communists officers (whatever that may be) to pay for police protection “show off in public” (whatever that may be)?

Should you expect anyone to believe such nonsense, you are a significant detriment to your cause..any cause you may espouse. Do you know what “zero credibility” means, sir?

Same guy #155 wrote: “Our community is united “. All one has to do is read all the posts from Vietnamese in this thread to realize how wrong that statement is, Thuan Do.

Sir, please stay in Orange County. No-one needs you here.

Posted by
Sunday, December 23 at 09:27 AM
The whole process of naming the business area on Story Road is invalid, undemocratic and violates the Redevelopment Agency (RDA) rules.

The City of San Jose wanted to honor the contributions of the Vietnamese American people by designating an area on Story Road with a name that reflects the Vietnamese American community. That was noble.

When using San Jose RDA funds - San Jose taxpayers’ money - to help construct a new project, the City must obtain the consensus of the neighborhood residents and businesses. In this case, RDA funds were being used; however, the City Council was not following proper procedures.

The RDA had fulfilled their responsibilities by sending out a survey to the community with six names for the people to vote on. Neighborhood residents and businesses replied to the RDA survey with 1,392 votes for the name “Little Saigon” or 91% of votes, and 144 votes for the name “Saigon Business District,” approximately 4% of the votes.

By law, the San Jose RDA staff must report the results of the survey to the San Jose City Council with the name that had the majority vote of the people (in this case, “Little Saigon” had the superior majority vote), and then the San Jose City Council has to vote on it.

This whole process of naming the business area on Story Road “Saigon Business District” is invalid, undemocratic and violates the RDA rules: on November 20, 2007, the San Jose Council-Member of the 7th District stepped in, bypassed a vote on “Little Saigon,” and submitted the loosing name, “Saigon Business District,” to the San Jose City Council to vote on instead.

The Vietnamese American people, who are US citizens, in San Jose are requesting the San Jose City Council to re-consider its decision and truly honor the contributions of the Vietnamese American community in San Jose with the dignity we deserve.

We respectfully demand that the Council revisits this issue and votes for “Little Saigon.”

H.G. Nguyen
A concerned citizen in San Jose

Posted by in San Jose, CA
Monday, December 24 at 03:17 PM
johnmichael o’connor please read this:

http://www.fva.org/2004/May/story04.htm

http://www.fva.org/2004/Apr/story04.htm

We are discussing calmly, why do you hate me so much ?

Thuan

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Tuesday, December 25 at 09:25 PM
johnmichael o’connor I am not a “guy”.

Please visit my webpage: http://hoangvan.net
the songs are all mine, I made them using my friends’ poems. For example this one (translated):

http://hoangvan.net/BorrowdTears.htm

That song I sang myself, I cried each time I sang the original:
http://hoangvan.net/GiotLeThuongVay.htm

I hope that will lower your blood pressure.
(Hoang Van = Thuan Do)

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 26 at 12:21 AM
#160: I don’t hate you. I just disagree with you, and don’t believe that we need you here. Stay in Orange County, sir. We don’t need anyone from Orange County telling us how to run San Jose.

Mr. Nguyen #159: we don’t need to revisit this issues, which should never have been taken up in the first place by the City of San Jose. Let the business owners decide what to call it.

Or maybe we do need to revisit it; if only to cancel the decision, have no official city-sanctioned name, and let the business owners decide.

Posted by
Wednesday, December 26 at 07:36 AM
Mr. johnmichael o’connor, here are some more articles for you to read:

http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R407011830/d

http://anhduong.net/English/ThuyReed.htm

http://news.myway.com/odd/article/id/403160|oddlyenough|05-13-2004::09:08|reuters.html

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7965

And I am the editor of this magazine:
http://www.nguoiviet4phuong.com/anhduong/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=8&Itemid=39

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, December 26 at 11:16 AM
160 - Nothing to be proud of in the articles you cite. You certainly can fight the communist plaque in this country, but most of us think you are silly and wasting your time.
There are so many REAL problems in Council District 7—if only you are your group could get motivated about those. If you really wanted to make D7 and San Jose a better community you would focus on the real problems that affect people on a day-to-day basis.
I realize that you won’t and you’d rather fight the phantoms here, and that’s too bad. You could make a much greater contribution to society if you went after the real enemy—gangs, violence, housing, traffic, etc., etc.

Posted by Marty Graw
Wednesday, December 26 at 11:54 AM
I guess we’re lucky that there isn’t a outspoken group from Wales involved here. Can you imagine the debate over naming something “Little Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrob wllllantysiliogogogoch”?

Posted by -dc- in San Jose
Wednesday, December 26 at 01:55 PM
Look at the manifestation of Vietnamese community in front of SJ city hall on 25 December:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDXoKGXmDyA

Every Tuesday the demonstration will happen at lunch time, and people will also begin the procedure for the recall.

One funny thing is that at the end of the video clip, there was a woman proposing the name of “Ma Town” for people to call that business district and many people agreed. The meaning: “Ma” means Madison, but Ma, in Vietnamese, also means Ghost, so Ma Town means Ghost Town!

That will bring bad luck to that business area, I guess

johnmichael o’connor, I speak here on behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose. They sent mails to me to ask me to participate in this discussion for them, since they are not so fluent with English. Are you afraid of my reasoning? so you have to repeatedly ask me to go away?

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Thursday, December 27 at 02:04 AM
164: That’s not about my pride to post those two links: they are the answer to 158’s question, since he did not believe that truth. I had to show the proof, or he would say that I am a liar.

You, on my opposite side, always try to divert the discussion, since you can’t find a valid excuse for the bad action of Madison that asks for a recall.

Please open your ears to hear and open your heart to feel. You are feeling for Madison, but do you feel for thousands of Vietnamese that she hurt?

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Thursday, December 27 at 03:05 AM
#166: Afraid of your “reasoning”? What reasoning? All I hear is anti-commie ranting.

Our roads and parks are in disrepair, our public swiming pools closed, our budget in chaos. Those things I care about. If there are a few communists floating around Orange County, I really don’t care.

Posted by
Friday, December 28 at 10:25 AM
johnmichael o’connor: you have no clue. It’s a waste of my time to speak to you. But there are other people on the list that I care about, and I wrote my posts for them.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Friday, December 28 at 07:30 PM
Thuan,
Can you give us a rough idea of how much money this recall election is going to cost? Please include all costs of public officials, city and county workers, police overtime to cover your protests, etc etc. It has to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more.
I think the costs of paying for this recall should come directly out of the city budget which is allocated this year for the Tet Festivals around San Jose. There should be no free lunch with our budget being so tight, and if you want a recall it is only fair to the other 95% of the citizens that your group sacrifices too. Or, do you think that is unfair too?

Posted by Steve
Friday, December 28 at 09:29 PM
Justice has no price (or infinite price) to pay, Steve.

I think Madison and the city council have the moral duty to pay all that money, instead of the Vietnamese community. Never in my life I have seen 7 members of a city council (apparently) mislead by a young woman to do such an unscrupulous and shameful thing as what they did on that historical night of 20 November 2007, when I watched their meeting on the live video on my compute screen.

The city has to spend much money for this procedure because of the fault of Chuck Reed and the city council.

The recall is among the rights of the US citizens, and it must be done to restore the fainess and transparency of our government system.
For the sake of democracy, I think both Chuck Reed and Madison have to resign, since they have violated the democracy principle!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, December 29 at 12:22 AM
American TV Stations reported the Fighting for LITTLE SAIGON:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJoVPdRljYw

Madison Nguyen Little Saigon City Hall part 2:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iaIPqmiOSL0

The city hall during the night of 20 Nov 2007!
San Jose was lucky that you did not have a riot at the end of that meeting!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, December 29 at 02:16 AM
# 166 Do Thuan
You wrote “johnmichael o’connor, I speak here on behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose. They sent mails to me to ask me to participate in this discussion for them, since they are not so fluent with English. Are you afraid of my reasoning? so you have to repeatedly ask me to go away? “
You do not represent 80,000 Vietnamese people in San Jose. We never have an election and so far I do not know any public vote for you to “speak here on behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose”.
Let say 2000 Vietnamese in San Jose wrote to you “to ask me to participate in this discussion for them, since they are not so fluent with English. “ so maximum you represent those 2.000 Vietnamese only. San Jose has 80,000 Vietnamese, so 2,000 is a very small group of 80000 (2.5%) and 2.5% does not represent the Vietnamese community
People in San Jose know that a lot of Vietnamese can speak, read and write English fluently. They work in all type of professional jobs, some of them use English better than Vietnamese. So when you wrote “They sent mails to me to ask me to participate in this discussion for them, since they are not so fluent with English”, it just prove that a lot of young Vietnamese in San Jose disagree with this issue so they do not get involve, and the people that “not so fluent with English” must ask for your help, one that live in Orange County. The people (I assume you mean old Vietnamese) that “not so fluent with English” can not even ask their sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, grandson, granddaughters ... to help them write and post to this site their views, because the answers they got is “this is silly”, “this is wrong way to do thing” even “this is stupid” or “this is a waste of time”, so they must ask for your help. You see the picture ?
You can speak out your view or your group’s view, but please never think and assume that you “ speak here on behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose”. No Vietnamese ever vote for you to do that.

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, December 29 at 09:51 AM
Vu Nguyen,
Even if I represent only one person in San Jose, I have all the right to participate in this discussion.
Even if I represent only myself, I also have all the right to participate and present my reasonings and explanations to shed light on what is happening in San Jose. That is on the name of freedom of speech.
I don’t have to discuss your assumptions because it diverts us from the main point of the discussion here.
Don’t try to shut me down like what the communists in Vietnam are doing toward the Vietnamese overseas who voice to the world how they are violating human rights in Vietnam.
You say that you are in San Jose but how could we know that you are not from Vietnam or from somewhere else?
So please do not bring up the issue of locality to this discussion again. If Mr. Tom McEnery says that I should not come to his blog’s discussion, then I will go away!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, December 29 at 11:40 AM
174 - Certainly you speak all you want—even if most of us think what you say is silly and lacks credibility. You have the right to reinforce what most of us think about this situation—it is a waste of time and resources. The city should not be involved in giving that district ANY name. And you want to compound one foolishness with another.
Go ahead and knock yourself out. Someday, maybe, you will realize the damage you are doing to the Vietnamese community and the San Jose.
Thanks.

Posted by U Kan Tu
Saturday, December 29 at 12:43 PM
Actually, #169, it’s a waste of our time for you to speak with us. Pretend everyone is as clueless as me, and just stop posting.
Well, at least you haven’t called me a commie. That’s good, I guess.

Posted by
Saturday, December 29 at 01:25 PM
175, 176: I smile when reading your posts, seeing that you are trying to use the word “we, us” to speak on behalf of all the people who visit this webpage! <smile> Do you think that it’s reasonable?
Anyway, I am only talking, but the people who are acting are the people in San Jose! They are collecting money for the process they want to follow. They are doing a good thing because they are fighting for what America represents in the world.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, December 29 at 02:17 PM
JM ‘OConnor
It is certainly obvious that one need not attack you with epithets like “commie” or others, when the most horrible cut in the minds and hearts of our people is to merely refer to you as a “lawyer.” Have a nice New Year, John Michael. TMcE

Posted by tomMcEnery
Saturday, December 29 at 02:45 PM
#178- Low blow Tom.

I think,” the most horroble cut in the hearts and minds of our people,” is to be deceived by a politican they believed in, worked very hard to get elected, and had high hopes that things would change for the better. At least an attorney will defend your rights, your beliefs, regardless of whether they agree with your stand, and is up front on what it will cost you.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Saturday, December 29 at 05:48 PM
#174 Do Thuan

You never read all my post, I guess. In the end I clearly wrote “You can speak out your view or your group’s view, but please never think and assume that you “ speak here on behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose”. No Vietnamese ever vote for you to do that. “
So you accused me of “Don’t try to shut me down like what the communists in Vietnam are doing toward the Vietnamese overseas who voice to the world how they are violating human rights in Vietnam” is totally wrong.
You can speak out your group view, that’s your right, but don’t pretend to speak on behalf of San Jose’s Vietnamese community. That’s misleading.
In fact in San Jose and also in Orange County and most of the Vietnamese communities around the world, you are well aware no one organization really represent the Vietnamese community. In each city, at least 2 organizations (in Orange County, your place, one time it had 3 organizations) claimed they represented the Vietnamese community and they do not see eye to eye.
So that’s why I don’t like any individual, group, or organization claim that they represent me or Vietnamese community because nobody elect them, but they elect themself. Just speak your mind and your opinion ... but please do not use the big world like “speak on behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose”. You wrote “Even if I represent only one person in San Jose”, so let me ask you is one person in San Jose qualify as “behalf of the Vietnamese people in San Jose” ? Is that misleading ?

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, December 29 at 08:57 PM
Tom #178: There’s no infletion or facial expression in print, so I am not sure how I should take your comment.

JohnMichael

Posted by
Sunday, December 30 at 11:37 AM
JM ... with a smile as delivered. TMcE

Posted by Tom McEnery
Sunday, December 30 at 05:53 PM
It took longer to read this thread today than it did to read the Sunday Mercury News.
Great stuff. Especially the broadside to JMO by Tom.
#94, that was a bullseye to the Mayor shorts.
Next week should be very interesting. Vatch di Vatch! It’s about to happen again.
Everybody, reload your cannons, only this time use candy kisses and confetti instead of nuts.
D.O.A.

Posted by D.O.A.
Sunday, December 30 at 07:48 PM
Rain or shine, holiday or workday, it’s still is a black Tuesday. So there will be a protest in front of city hall from 12:00 to 2:00 on this Tuesday, the first day of the year 2008.

The reasons behind the protest is:

According to the resolution agreed to by approximately 2,000 attendees at the community general meeting at GI Forum yesterday (Sunday), there will be demonstration called “Black Tuesday” in front of city hall from 12:00-2:00 during lunchtime, so that people working closedby to attend during their lunch break.
The purpose of the demonstration is to

(1) protest the undemocratic decision made by the SJ city council meeting on Nov. 20th, 2007 (the Black Tuesday) to adopt the name Saigon Business District imposed by CM Nguyen. It’s ultimately the result of the total lack of transparency in the way CM Nguyen handle the situation, a well established pattern on how CM Nguyen has handled other projects in the past.

(2) protest CM Nguyen for making insulting remarks (on an Television interview) to all concerned citizens of San Jose who show up to speak out at city council meetings, and in particular to the attendees of the Nov. 20th meeting, [as job-less people who are] having some free time, instead of having full-time, 2-3 jobs or some jobs (and thus are too busy to attend these meetings)

Best regards,
MyPhuong Le

Posted by
Tuesday, January 01 at 12:21 PM
220 Leo Ave., Suite # B
San Jose, CA 95112
San Jose, Dec. 30, 2007

Subject: A dialogue with Councilmember Nguyen—Let’s help each other to understand

To Councilmember Madison Nguyen,

After the community general meeting on Dec. 9th, 2007, I heard your comment on KLIV radio station, “I don’t know why/how they [the community] invited people outside of San Jose to attend the meeting, after all, it’s a San Jose issue.”

I will try to answer your question below, but first I would like for you to please answer a question for me. This is in relation to the statement you made on KQED that “I don’t have the time, the energy, the effort to call every single one of my constituents of district 7 to inform them [about the June 5th meeting]” in response to Barry Do’s statement that no one within the community knew about the meeting in which the council first approved of the project with the name of Vietnamese Business District. You appear to be trying to make it seem to the mainstream that it is very difficult for you to get word out to your Vietnamese constituents, but the truth is that there are, for example, at least three 24-hour radio stations in San Jose (1120AM, 1430AM, 1500AM) who would be very eager to read any of your annoucements, especially news of this magnitude—as you know very well, having used them yourself to make announcements that you DID want your constituents to hear. I am sure you are very much aware of the magnitude of the community’s interest in this issue, as this was one of the major promises you made to the Vietnamese community during your campaign in 2005 to replace Councilmember Gregory, which gained you your present City Council seat.

A single announcement requested by you of any of these radio stations—no need for you to make phone calls to every single one of your constituents!—on this issue would have no doubt filled the Council chamber that night, June 5, 2007. This would have been a chance for you to proudly show the City Council how much support you have from the community for this project, as well as a chance for you to show the community that you have made this promise a reality. Seems like a win-win situation for you!

However, for some unknown reason, you chose to keep this quiet and hidden. Besides the owner of the Vietnam Town mall, there were only two other Vietnamese-Americans present at that City Council meeting, one who told me personally that he was called and asked to show up only a few hours before the meeting and was quite surprised to find only two other Vietnamese-Americans there. If you need to refresh your memory, you can watch the video of this meeting in San Jose’s on-line city meeting archives to confirm that this was the case (http://www.sanjoseca.gov)

The question remains: Why did you not publicize your accomplishment, the City Council vote to approve your Business District project at the June 5 City Council meeting? The Vietnamese community here in San Jose would very much appreciate it if you could please answer that question, and please answer it with reason and truth, instead of evading the question with misleading, irrelevant arguments as you do with the mainstream American public.

(to be continued)

Posted by My Phuong Le in San Jose
Wednesday, January 02 at 03:58 PM
(continue)

Back the question you posed on KLIV, I must commend you on one thing, at least you are telling the truth THIS time. Yes, there were some attendees who are from outside the precise boundaries of the City of San Jose. I have the fortune of knowing a few of them: a nurse from Los Gatos, an engineer from Milpitas. Since you seem to not understand why, and you probably will never understand why due to your lack of outreach to the Vietnamese community, I must take this opportunity to answer your question. Why do I say “your lack of outreach” to the Vietnamese community on this issue? You probably still remember that you chose to attend a wedding anniversary of a president of a friendship-association (your main supporter for the New Saigon name, and later your supporter for Saigon Business District) rather than showing up for a few minutes to listen to more than 300 of your constituents at a community meeting on the Vietnamese business district issue on September 23?

The reason you yourself know these individuals are from “outside of San Jose” is because you recognize them as your supporters who you worked with during your campaign for City Council to replace Terry Gregory in 2005. They are the people who attended your fundraising dinners. They are the people who worked on your campaign, calling district 7 voters for you, walking door-to-door for you, putting up campaign signs for you. Why did you welcome help with your campaign from people outside of San Jose, why didn’t you shoo them away then with your “this is a San Jose issue” argument?

Why did these people choose to attend the Dec. 9 community meeting? Very simple, to RIGHT a WRONG!!! Like many of us in the community, they admit now that they made a serious mistake in supporting you, in putting you in office. They didn’t know back then, that once you got there, you would only serve small special interest groups, like real estate developers, and not your constituents as an elected official should. Your constituents don’t want another Gregory. Need I remind you of the scandal generated by your appointments to the Board of Directors of the Vietnamese American Community Center, which caused a major uproar and protest within San Jose’s Vietnamese-American community?

Why did these people choose to attend the Dec. 9 community meeting? You invited them!!! When you went on Vietnam Television on Nov. 21 to insult the attendees of the Nov. 20 council meeting as a bunch of jobless individuals, people with nothing better to do than to attend a City Council meeting, you forgot to add that “I am only insulting San Jose residents”! If you had said that, these individuals probably would not have felt as much pain and would not have been as likely to show up at the Dec. 9 meeting.

In contradiction to your continued attempts to characterize your constituents and former supporters as a divided community to the mainstream media, we are united, not just in San Jose, but everywhere in California, and in the U.S. in this fight to clean up the San Jose City Council and restore democracy to the city of San Jose.

I hope this answers your question.

Respectfully,
My Phuong Le
email:

cc: San Jose City Council and local Vietnamese and American media.

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, January 02 at 03:58 PM
"BLACK TUESDAY” Protest at San Jose City Hall / 1-1-2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wTRASbEnk7A

for recall Madison!

Posted by Observer
Wednesday, January 02 at 04:28 PM
#187: I watched one minute of your you tube link. Boy, I hope Dubya doesn’t get wind that democracy has been destroyed here in San Jose...He’ll invade.

Posted by
Friday, January 04 at 10:34 AM
Demonstration in front of the San Jose City Hall on 8 January 2008: Asking Madison to resign, Chuck Reed and some city councils to apologize:

http://saigonfilms.com/

Posted by The Observer
Thursday, January 10 at 12:41 AM
Dear:
* City Councilmembers,
* Bay Area media,
* Mainstream public,
* Community members and all friends,

Please open the following links and try to understand why our people outcry in this naming process.

As our first elected official who got public seat from the community’s hard campaign work, Madison instead of paying back her own people with a little favor , the name they so long have passion with: Little Saigon, she tried every efforts to defeat that name and after that, insulting community members who used to give her their support votes.

You don’t understand, we don’t understand either!

So, media and government officers:

Please ask Madison:

1/ Why denied Little Saigon, (and don’t tell us about her trick compromising)

2/ The real info’s of other names’ backers (their names and emails, letters of their support for other names).

3/ Why didn’t she publicize her proposal and the public hearing (June 5th City Hearing) of the initial name: Vietnamese Business District?

4/ Why didn’t she stop at the RDA official survey’s result when Little Saigon was the top?
Remember Madison imposed her own guiline to RDA that naming decision will be based on choices of residents and business owners of 1000ft radius. So, how would City Council and she throw away her own rule and words. Doesn’t she care about how much tax payer’s $$$ involved in this naming process: surveys, polls, meetings (opened and closed), press conference…
5/ Why did Madison and Mayor Reed create a naming package painted as to honor Viet community, but infact only serving for political agenda / business agenda / personal agenda of Madison and whoever behind her to confront with the Viet community.

People from our community (youths to elders) are now facing with stress and psychological disorder caused by Madison’s tricks and the untransparency of this naming process from City Council.

I urge the media and conscient government officers to help bringing sunshine for San Jose’s residents.

I appreciate your help and concern!
Shortcut to: http://www.mercurynews.com//ci_7959998?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com
Yours truly,

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, January 14 at 05:26 PM
Truc Chi Tran #190,
The SJ Mercury had an article today regarding the “Little Saigon” fiasco. Judging by the blogs following the article, the thuggish behavior of those in favor of a a recall has totally worked in the opposite of your efforts. This includes both those in the Vietnamese community and also non Vietnamese. Your group comes off as a mob, especially in the recent new video of your group shouting down a single pro Madison supporter in front of City Hall....that was disgraceful and shows what little regard your group has for free speech or the constitution.

Posted by Steve
Monday, January 14 at 07:28 PM
#191 I disagree. I think Madison Nguyen and Chuck Reed have just continued a tradition of a San Jose City Council that dismisses public input and just does whatever the hell they want to do. Madison deserves to be recalled, she’s served her constituency poorly.

Posted by Dave
Monday, January 14 at 09:33 PM
Steve,

If we are the “thugs” as you described, kindly please tell all of us here: 1) WHO did we physically beat up, 2) WHOSE properties did we vandalized, 3) the TIME and 4) the PLACE where this happened???

I’ll give you the rest of this week to even fill 1 (ONE) NAME. Heck, I’ll give you the rest of this month to do so. And if that isn’t enough, I’ll give ya the whole YEAR!!! WE’RE ALL WATCHING YOU, STEVY BOY!!! Back up what ever you say with FACTS and don’t just SHOOT THAT JACKASS MOUTH OF YOUR OFF!!!

BACK IT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!

Luong

P.S. Ohh, that one person who tried to pull down that counter-demonstrator’s sign is your friend or Maddy girl’s friend? Anyone can claim to be with us in those big demonstrations, even the communists who want us to look bad…

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 03:06 AM
Dear Steve:
I was once standing on the side in front of the City Hall wearing a red jacket just like the man in the yellow jacket that you mentioned in your post. I came without introduding myself to the Little Saigon supporters because I did not have a need to do so. I came with copies of John Vu’s article -Lost in Translation - The Little Saigon conflict in my hand in hope of distributing them to the public to earn their support for our cause. The little Saigon supporters were curious about me because I set myself apart from them for I was there for a different call. Most of them looked at me as they marched around the circle in front of the City Hall. Every now and then there were one or two of them approached me half way asking what I was distributing. I refused to tell them what those copies were because I thought they already knew this article in the Vietnamese version. Because of my hesitation to communicate with them I thought they must think I am pro-Madison. Some of them offered to buy a copy from me since I told them it costed me $1 per copy and I rather gave them to the public. Every time they approached me they always talked politely. Joshua Molina from the Mercury News is a full blood American and I don’t think he understand Vietnamese to understand what the Little Saigon supporters said to the man in the yellow jacket and Vietnamese culture to understand when someone approaching you half way is a sign of respect not shooing you away. Unfortunately, he reported in his article as is and caused you to have a misunderstanding.

The Little Saigon supporters gathered in front of the City Hall every Tuesday to express their dissatisfaction with the broken democratic process seen at the City Hall on November 20th, 2007. Madison Nguyen is a leader of the city of San Jose and was unable to resolve the conflict. She is not an effective leader because she steadfastly refused to meet the Little Saigon supporters for any dialogues for reconciliation despite their countless attempts.

Steve, as an American and don’t you understand one of the core value of America is freedom of speech and expression? The Little Saigon supporters are exercising just that every Tuesday.

Posted by in san jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 11:34 AM
Steve:
You called us Thugs! Then why there were never a sight of police in attendance in every of our demonstrations? No matter how large is a demonstration there were never a police in sight. We have been here over 30 years and there were countless of demonstrations across California from us and did we ever have a problem with the police? Be kind to your neighbor Steve.
Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 11:51 AM
193- Luong Do, while I understand your passion on this issue, I think your post to Steve is disrespectful, and doesn’t make you look very credible. I understand how frustrated you are with those who disagree with you, but no matter what you say, you will never change their minds on this topic or any other topic, if the other person has their mind made up. Save your valuable energy for the battle you are fighting to win, and do it with personal integrity.
Learn to keep your eye on the prize, and be a flexible bamboo. What others think is unimportant, when you believe your position is correct and just. Fight fair, and be respectful so you can hold your head high in the end. It is not about winning or losing, it’s about the way you conducted yourself during the battle, and how much you educated people along the way~

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 12:25 PM
You don’t have to physically attack someone to be a thug. Bullying tactics, such as those being employed by the anti-Madison forces, certainly are thug-like.
Many of us have been disappointed over the years by the actions of one or more of our councilmembers. Many times we have seen what appeared to be the will of the people ignored by our elected representatives. I understand that many in the Vietnamese community feel that is what happened on this issue. It still does not rise to the level it has been taken and certainly not to the level of a recall. Yes, you have the right to do all the things you are doing—that doesn’t make it the correct thing to do.
If any of us don’t like our elected reps then we can work to elect someone else at election time. In the meantime we work to make things better—not worse. We don’t ignore the bigger problems like crime, housing, etc. so we can continue to express our displeasure.
Use your energy to make your district and our city a better place—the tactics you are using are not doing that. Focus, people, focus.

Posted by K O
Tuesday, January 15 at 02:04 PM
Dear Ms. Kathleen Flynn:

You were not fair when you reprimanded Luong for expressing his frustration toward the demeaning remarks from Steve. I think Steve deserves the same reprimand or even a harsher reprimand for starting the insult first.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 02:09 PM
Luong #193,
Wow, thanks for making my point so clearly regarding the behavior of your group. That was quite an outburst in your last post. Your behavior causes those around you to close their ears and minds, even if you had a good point in there somewhere. You need to change your tactics to facts, not intimidation. You will never get the change you are seeking by trying to shove your point down peoples throats and having no respect for others....that is thuggish behavior.

Posted by Steve
Tuesday, January 15 at 02:18 PM
Don’t trivialize communist governments attempts at influencing events like this. It’s not without precedent.

Consider
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/10/EDGU9GJDHK1.DTL

Posted by Novice
Tuesday, January 15 at 02:25 PM
#198- Ms. Nguyen,
I find all of this very very disheartening. I appreciate your comments in trying to defend your friend. You of course are entitled to your opinion. While I have great sympathy for your stands on this issue, and I support the name “Little Saigon,” I don’t support name-calling, veiled threats, or intimidation. I am getting really concerned by the way some of the pro “Little Saigon” supporters are behaving towards people with opposing views. You can’t convince people to see your side of things with name-calling, or intimidation, so please consider a different way of approaching this, or even some of your supporters will walk a way from you, and your cause.
Steve, while I understand your meaning of the term “thug,” perhaps you could find a definition that is a bit less inflammatory. You must understand that there is a language barrier here, and terms you could use in conversation with me would not be considered offensive, but might be to someone who is using English as a second language. In the end at the end of the day, none of you are going to change your position on this, so perhaps you might just be respectful of one another’s comments on the issue.
To the “Little Saigon,” supporters, I have a question, if you could offer a compromise to the name Saigon Business District that would take “everyone’s” needs into account, what name would you offer up, and how would you ensure you are being fair to the non Vietnamese business owners, and constituents in that district as a whole?

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 03:50 PM
Dear K.O.

If you think it is a bullying tactic then it is a bullying tactic. But if you think it is an out cry of the elderly who can not articulately speaking English like you can in your post to express what you think then it is an out cry. Those elderly are my uncles, my grandpas,my grandmas who are crying out for the unjustice from the city of San Jose. They can not speak English well enough to express their pain from the betrayal of Madison Nguyen and Chuck Reed. They spent countless hours walking from area to area to campaign for Madison and Chuck Reed to get elected. They untiredly made phone calls to remind everybody to vote for Madison and Chuck Reed. All they asked is just a fair and democratic process to decide a name. But Madison and Chuck Reed coldly, arrogantly turned their back against them. Unable to express their pain fully, they only can shout it out in the demonstration. I am crying out also while I am typing these words because I myself unable to defend my uncles, my grandpas, grandmas from the humiliation from all of you. I have been living here for 30 years, had a college degree and unable to express myself clearly how can those elderly can?

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 04:27 PM
Ms. Nguyen,
I am sorry for your pain, and the pain of your family. You have done a good job of expressing your feelings, and fighting for your family members. Please know that just because some people may disagree with your position, that does not mean they wish you ill will, or don’t understand, or have compassion for your cause.
There’s isn’t one person on this blog who hasn’t felt betrayed, or hurt by a decision made by an elected offical they campaigned very hard for. You are not alone in feeling that our democratic process is unfair at times, we all feel that way, even former Mayor McEnery has felt that way. Last summer I lost a very important battle in front of the Council myself. I brought in a petition with over 400 hundred people’s signatures on it, 20 people came and spoke supporting my view, but a very very small handful of people got the Mayor and Council on their side, and they passed the ordinance exemption. I was very devestated too, but I also realized I have a lot of power too. I will use my voting power in the next election to ensure that this kind of unfair special interest group doesn’t get a way with it again.
I think the point I’m trying to convey to you is, it doesn’t matter what other people think about this issue, if you feel strongly about it, fight long and hard to make change, but just be careful how you fight the battle.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Tuesday, January 15 at 08:07 PM
Please read:

http://www.vietvungvinh.com/Portal.asp?goto=VietNam/2008/20080115_06.htm

Posted by The Observer
Wednesday, January 16 at 11:47 AM
#201 Kathleen Flynn:

I would propose “Little Saigon Business District”
But it would be too long!

Thuan

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, January 16 at 11:52 AM
Dear Ms. Kathleen Flynn:

Yesterday, after posting my response to Mr. or Ms. K.O. I was emotionally exhausted from crying and was unable to respond to your gentle words to me. Your sensitivity has given me a lot of comfort and I deeply appreciate your humane touch.

I would like very much to talk further with you about this issue in private and I am more than happy if you can email me. is my email address.

I am taking this opportunity to clarify one thing that I am not related to any persons at the demonstrations in front of the City Hall every Tuesday. I am calling these elderly uncles, aunts, grandpas, grandmas because we called them like that in Vietnamese. If any persons who are younger than your parents, you will call them uncles or aunts. If they are old like your grandparents, you will call them grandpas or grandmas. You should respect them as much as you respect your own.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, January 16 at 02:02 PM
#205- Thank you Thuan Do for your post. With deepest respect, I am just curious as to how you think the name you suggested meets the needs of the Hispanic, African American, Caucasian, and Chinese business community in that district? Do you think the name you mentioned above truly reflects or would draw people to businesses like theirs that aren’t Vietnamese? I guess my initial question was asking you to give a name that would be inclusive and a reflection of all businesses in that district.
#206- Julie, I would be happy to email you privately. Just so you know, I am from back east and we too have a great deal of respect for our elders, and value proud long-lived traditions of our past. I do however love the thoughts and ideas of our new generations, and find their way of looking at things refreshing, and educational too. That doesn’t mean I’d abandon my personal beliefs, but flexibility is a real virtue to personal growth. It makes for some beautiful bamboo trees too!

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Wednesday, January 16 at 02:40 PM
2005: Madison made 2 promises during her campaign to replace Gregory after his resignation over corruption charges (1) creation of the Vietnamese American Community Center (VACC); (b) to complete the work that the community has put in toward the designation of a business area similar to Little Saigon districts in other cities Given that these promises were made as part of her campaign, Madison does understand the significance of the matter.
Madison made these promises after it was discovered that she attempted to delay the vote of an important issue for the Vietnamese community.
March 2007: Madison arranged for a meeting between Pat Dando, Paul Krutko, Sonny Nguyen (her campaign treasurer), Jim Nguyen to promote the 1-mile strip on Story Road as “Vietnam Town Business District”. Councilmember Nguyen brought together these high power meetings to promote the name “Vietnam Town Business District”.

Mr. Lap Tang and his associates were the only group that Councilmember Nguyen requested any meeting with the RDA regarding this project.

All these meetings were done in closed doors.
April 2007 Madison requested Deputy City Manger Ed Shikada and the Redevelopment Agency Agency (Richard Keit, Bill Ekern and others), to meet with Mr. Lap Tang and his group, the developer of VietnamTown Mall, to discuss the naming of this 1-mile strip on Story Road. Tang Lap requested that the name be Vietnam Town Business District.
June 5, 2007 SJ City Council approved the name Vietnamese Business District (VBD) for the project. Besides the developer of Vietnam Town mall, there were only a handful of people at the city council meeting. When asked shortly after the meeting by many supporters, including the president of Vietnamese American Community of Northern California, she stated that the name was “final”. Since the community didn’t spoke up earlier, and there was NOTHING they would be able to do about it now.This was Councilmember Nguyen’s first attempt to impose a name for this District upon the community and her constituents. Under scrutiny for her close relationship with the developer of Vietnam Town and her the apparent questionable motive for naming an entire business district to benefit a few developers, Madison changed the proposed name to Vietnamese Business District.

Councilmember Nguyen spoke of this project as an important milestone for the Vietnamese Community, “a time to celebrate”; but kept the meeting relatively quiet. Only a handsful showed up at her request, but more than a 1000 showed up in November to support “Little Saigon”.
August 15, 2007: San Jose’s Redevelopment Agency (RDA) organized the legislatively-mandated community meeting at the Tully Library community room. More than 100 Vietnamese-Americans showed up, the vast majority wanting the area to be named Little Saigon and not the name Madison had imposed upon the community, Madison condescendingy informed the community, “Now, even if all of you, let’s say a hundred percent of you including myself, like the name Little Saigon. Right? But since we don’t live there, we live about three or four miles down, our input is not going to make that much of a difference”, and then insisted upon a survey of the merchants and residents within a 1000-ft radius, the survey about which she said, “those people are going to give us the name. Whoever guy come up with the most votes, that’s what the city council is going to take into consideration. It’s the most fairest way on how we’re going to achieve this resolution.” This meeting was billed as “for banner and gateway design”, with no mention of the naming issue (see flyer.) This further confirmed that VBD was the final chosen name if the community had not taken up the issue.
This survey as insisted by Madison was the first one done in the history of San Jose. It was not mandated by the City’s procedures or regulations. Councilmember Nguyen was trying to hide behind this survey – with four variations of names containing “Saigon”, it was clearly intended to confuse the stakeholders and split the vote. Councilmember Nguyen lectured the community at this meeting on the “freedom of speech” and “fairness”, and yet when the survey didn’t her give the result she wanted, she simply dismissed it..

Shouldn’t elected officials be held responsible for their promises?
October 10, 2007: the RDA organized a second community meeting, and revealed RDA’s survey result: Little Saigon (37.6%), New Saigon Business District (6.8%), Saigon Business District (SBD) (5.1%.) Little Saigon supporters filled the meeting room. The name “Little Saigon” is always the #1 choice in all the surveys and polls.
Madison’s choice for “Saigon Business District” was brought up and soundly rejected by the people; how can she refer to it as a “new naming option”?
Nov. 20, 2007: More than 1,000 Little Saigon supporters showed up at the City Hall with 200+ people speaking in support of the name Little Saigon. Councilmember Nguyen’s imposed name (SBD) was passed on an 8-3 vote. Three councilmembers opposed her motion: Councilmembers Constant, Chu, and Oliverio clearly pointed out the illegitimacy of her proposal with supporting data. Other councilmembers who supported her justified that she is “Your Elected Official,” so they sided with her because they thought she would know what’s best. A City Council meeting is only a place where the “mini-mayor” system can play out, a place to legitimize the wrong-doing of a Councilmember.

Posted by Tony Ng in San Jose
Wednesday, January 16 at 04:29 PM
# 207: Dear Flynn,

You ask for the impossible. In that case, there should be no naming at all. Nothing can please everybody!

If the city wants to honor Vietnamese immigrants who brought more prosperity to the city, then the city must follow the polls and name that place with the name that pleases the largest number of Vietnamese people, and that is Little Saigon.

I don’t think that the naming would create any problem with other ethnic groups, since Little Saigon appeared before in Southern California, San Francisco, and Houston, and nobody strongly opposed to that. Everybody wants a florishing city, and certainly, if the naming Little Saigon pleases most Vietnamese people all over the country, then when they consider moving to California, they would have more incentive to move to one of the Little Saigon then somewhere else.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, January 16 at 06:39 PM
K.O. and some others (on Madison’s side):
Don’t you cooly sit here reasoning and teaching other people how they should behave! If I were they, perhaps more things would have happened during that long night of Nov. 20 - 2007.
At home in Southern California, during that memorable evening, I suddenly received an email from a stranger on our mailing list, telling us about the website that we can observe a live video show of the S.J. City council meeting, and I sat there for more than three hours watching the show.
At the end of the evening (it was passed midnight), my heart was tightened when I saw the crowd got out, fully disappointed, saddened. I told my son: “if I were there, I would break something, for example a bottle of beer, or something like that. I could not stand that injustice ... it’s too much!”
And my son told me: “you can’t do that! It could make things turned into a riot, and some people might die!”

Now I tell you: Those Vietnamese people were too gentle, so some bad guys tried to walk on them, with their dirty boots! And their reactions you saw during the black Tuesday demonstrations are nothing compared to the humiliation they had endured!
You are just the outsiders, knowing nothing, you are in no position to judge them. Understand?

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, January 16 at 08:41 PM
210 - I understand completely. If you don’t get your way you are willing to resort to violence. Very sad.
I have been to many City Council meetings where the Council did not agree with my opinion. Sure I was frustrated and disappointed—but I never once thought of resorting to violence. We have a process—sometimes it works in my favor and sometimes it doesn’t.
You are alienating potential supporters. Keep it up. If your intent to make all residents of San Jose to feel unwelcome in the Vietnamese business district you are succeeding.
Oh, just for the record, I am not a Madison supporter. I am supporter of process and common sense. It would be nice if you would subscribe to that instead of thinking about violent acts.

Posted by K O
Wednesday, January 16 at 10:53 PM
#210: KO: And I also understand that you are such a cunning man/woman who can distort what people say to turn them from right to wrong. You are only an insensitive person who feel nothing people around you might feel, and I think that it’s no use to talk to you anymore. I can understand now why Julie Nguyen got so angry and emotional after writing to you. I would not, I only feel pity for you, because you are so poor of feelings. Vietnamese community needs no visitor like you. Of course the people who came to the meeting did not resort to violence, and what I said might not be what I COULD or WOULD do; I only said what I thought to make my point, but again, you had no feeling and no understanding. That’s sad!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Thursday, January 17 at 12:32 AM
Dear Mr. or Ms. K.O.:

We are not violence people. We are not resort to violence when we are disappointed. The city of San Jose would like to honor the contribution of the Vietnamese Community and would like to give us a Vietnamese name. They told us to follow the process to get the name. We won in every steps of the process. But at the end we lost because of Madison’s decision. 3 councilmen voted yes for Little Saigon the rest cited it’s Madison ‘s decision and they followed her lead and decision and voted no. This obviously is an unjustice and we are not going to walk away and accept the humiliation. America taught us to stand up and fight for what we believe. There are hundreds of people at the demonstration to show their dissatisfaction of the supposed to be democratic process to become undemocratic process. The chanting of disappointment from hundreds of people created a thunder of human voice that caused ill feeling for many including myself. But I see it as an outcry of those seeking justice not violence as you see it.

I believe that Madison and Chuck Reed as the leaders of the city of San Jose must reach out and reconcile this issue. They are not allowed to sit still and ignore their constituents crying every week in front of their door like that. All the powerful people in the city of San Jose please do something! I am begging you!

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Thursday, January 17 at 08:35 AM
Kathleen #201,

I have great respect for you and your posts.

After reading the last few posts, I think thug is an appropriate noun to describe some of the anti-Madison crowd. How else would you describe those who advocate intimidation and threats to those who don’t bow to their demands? In the wrong context, thug would be inflammatory or inaccurate, but not in this case.

Posted by Steve
Thursday, January 17 at 09:09 AM
The only thing that the Little Saigon supporters have accomplished is to guarantee that it will be a long time before another Vietnamese candidate is elected to political office in San Jose.

Posted by Not a Novice
Thursday, January 17 at 11:35 AM
Many of us non-Vietnamese people in the community understand your frustration and outrage with the City over this issue. We have experienced the same disappointments with an elected official that you have. I think the problem with the Vietnamese Community is that you have an idealistic view of the democratic process - just because you went though all those proper steps, does not always mean justice prevails. The beauty of our system is that both sides of any given issue must be taken into consideration, and that we can hold our elected officials accountable for promises they make. Unlike in other countries, where you can be tortured and killed for speaking out against a public official, in America, it is your right to voice your opinion. I think another part of the problem is that American citizens could never understand the pain and terror the Vietnamese people have experienced in the Communist regime you fled. Your cries of outrage stem from something deeper, that unless we have walked a mile in your shoes, we could never truly understand the significance of the name “Little Saigon”. So, please know that some of us are trying to understand your outcries about this issue.
It is not your feelings of anger or betrayal that is being debated here. It is the way you are conveying your frustration that is the issue. A very beloved man by the name of Dr. Martin Luther Jr. King gave his life in the same kind of struggle you are in. He developed a non-violent resistance method of protesting the injustices of the inequality people in this country were suffering from. On Monday, we will be celebrating this great man for all of his dedication and contributions to changing the democratic process for the better. If you have not already learned about this great man and this method, please do. It will help you understand how to effectively get people to hear your message, without alienating them with your frustration and feelings of betrayal.
As to your disappointment in Madison, you must remember that she is just a human being, who is sworn to represent the entire community, not just the Vietnamese community. Every elected official, when campaigning for the first time for public office, has great ideals based on their own personal belief, but once they are in office, they find that their own personal belief cannot take precedence over their constituency as a whole. They are in a position to have to please many different groups and beliefs. Having worked in government myself, I know you can never please all of the people all of the time, no matter how hard you try. To prevent your community from going through this again, don’t vote for someone because they are Vietnamese; vote for someone because like Sup. Pete McHugh who has a longstanding record of supporting your views. I wish you luck, and I hope this brings you peace.

Posted by Christian Hemingway in San Jose
Thursday, January 17 at 01:15 PM
Dear Ms. Thuan Do:

I appreciated you mentioned that I was angry and got emotional after writing to Mr./Ms. K.O. I was not angry at Mr./Ms. K.O. ‘s comment. I fully understood his/her comment because I was there at the demonstration once. There were hundreds of us at the demonstration and the chanting of hundreds of people at a time is very powerful and intimidating. It is unfortunately that this issue has caused so much agony in our community and being unable to express articulately in English to the American public we only can cry it out loud in the demonstration. I cried while typing to respond to Mr./Ms. K.O. because I would like to let Mr./Ms. K.O. know that what he or she is thinking about us is not necessarily correct. I needed a powerful command of English to fully express what in my mind but I obviously did not have that ability and I was so frustrated and cried because I could not defend powerfully enough for my elders from the wrong impression. We and them are from different world. We are from the far east and they are from the far west. The culture and the interpretation of expression must be different. What we consider as passionate they may consider as violence and vice versa. We can understand them because we can speak their language. But they can not understand us because they don’t know our culture and can not speak our language. This conflict keeps piling up and Madison can spare all of us from this divisiveness but she chose to close her door tightly and refused to open any dialogues for reconciliation. I am crying because I am in vain not because I am angry.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Thursday, January 17 at 02:36 PM
#209- Mr. Do, thank you for proving my point, you can’t please everyone. I supported the name “Little Saigon,” I live in San Jose, and I too am disappointed in the vote by the Council. I do agree the City should have followed the survey, but I also want to say you are incorrect when you say that, “I don’t think that the naming would create any problem with other ethnic groups.” I was present at the Nov. meeting and members of the Hispanic community did not support the name “Little Saigon.” Also, my understanding is that many constituents wrote in objecting to the name “Little Saigon.”
Having said that, I do understand your anger, disappointment and frustration about the events that took place. I really do because my Father fought in the Vietnam War, and I know how much your people have suffered. I too suffered because my Father left us and fought in Vietnam for two or more years, and came home a changed man. When he flew back home from Vietnam, American protesters at the airport calling him a baby killer met him. So your pain is not exclusive to just your Vietnamese community.

#214- Steve,
Thank you for your kind words, I do understand your position, and in some cases you make some good points. Let me ask you to try and understand something here that I see as a failure in communication. My mother was German born, and English was her second language. Because of the horrors that were taking place in Germany, my Mom left Nazi Germany to come to the US. She loved this country more than I can express to you. Fourth of July was like Christmas to her. She learned the language, worked hard at a blue-collar job because her PHD from Germany wasn’t transferable here in the US. She just glowed when she was sworn in as an American Citizen.
When my Mom spoke English, she often made statements that would stop us in our tracks because trying to translate a foreign language into English is very difficult, never mind trying to assimilate into our customs. So what I’m saying here is that these Vietnamese people are expressing themselves in the best way they know how, and many times the way things come out, is not the way they mean it to. I guess I’m asking you to try to be a little more patient and look at their message, not the way they are failing to communicate it in a politically correct way.
These people, and their families experienced many horrors, and the pain is still very fresh to them. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome is not limited to just out war Vets. We should not punish, nor judge them on their inability to move past emotional scars we do not understand, nor have experienced ourselves. What we can do Steve, and I think you and KO would be awesome stewards in this, is to teach them how to fight and how to express themselves so they can be heard, and respected through our democratic process. No one here is immune to the disappointment of our elected. Those of us who were born in the US don’t have an idealistic view of our political leaders, or a life time of experience of the failure, at times, of our democratic process. Steve, these people do have a very idealistic view of democracy. So please, cut them a break, and give them the benefit of your education and knowledge. Show them a way to better communication, and ways to fight for what they believe in. Let Ms. Julie Nguyen know her request for our help and support is not being ignored. You don’t, after all, have to agree with their stand, just teach them the proper way to go about expressing themselves so they feel heard. Thanks Steve.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Thursday, January 17 at 02:50 PM
#215: We need justice and not Vietnamese communist elected officials. Madison is a shame to Vietnamese community in San Jose. She must step down one way or another.
These people merited to be elected in Southern California:
http://www.asianamerican.net/bios/Van-Tran.html

http://www.janetforsupervisor.com/

http://www.lannguyen.com/

http://www.ci.garden-grove.ca.us/?q=DinaNguyen

Posted by Observer
Thursday, January 17 at 03:07 PM
212 - Nothing was distorted—I based my comments on the words you wrote “if I were there, I would break something, for example a bottle of beer, or something like that. I could not stand that injustice ... it’s too much!” You are the one who raised the specter of violence—not me.
The point that I and many others on this site have tried to make to you is that even in Amerca, even in a democratic government, you don’t always get your way. You don’t like the way your elected official(s) represent you then vote them out of office at the next election. That’s how it works. You want it to work another way and by doing so you are damaging your community and the general San Jose community.
You are not the first group to not feel you were treated fairly by the City Council and you won’t be the last. You had the opportunity to make your case and you did not prevail. That is how the system works. If all of us who ever were on the losing side before the Council were to act like you and your community are acting, San Jose (and society in general) would break down into nothing but a state of anarchy. You think you know everything there is to know about democracy but clearly you don’t. Few of us do. It is an imperfect system. In fact, someone once said America is the worst country in the world—except for all the rest.
Try to understand. Just because we disagree with your tactics doesn’t mean we don’t understand your frustration and disappointment.
And thanks for letting me know I would not be welcome in your business district. You made my point better than I could have.

Posted by K O
Thursday, January 17 at 03:56 PM
Dave #192 opines:” Madison deserves to be recalled, she’s served her constituency poorly. “ Because of one issue, Dave?

Personally, I believe she was politically naive to even get into the battle, and her “compromise” was truly ham-handed and amateurish. It’s even more stunning that most of the council went along with it. Still the sheep that Gonzales/Guerra cowed for 8 years. Afraid of being accused of anti-diversity?? What were they thinking to even get involved???

But I don’t know what other issues there are in her district, so I can’t say that because of her stupidity with this issue that she has not served her district. After all, the big hue and cry on this Little Saigon nonsense comes from Orange County.

The council needs to just walk away and reverse its “official” designation and let the business owners beat each other up about it. Aside from the anti-commie crowd on Tuesdays, and a few people that live nearby, nobody gives a shit about this so-called issue.

Uncircle the wagons, city council, and move on to real issues like cops, firefighters, and decent roads. Don’t keep defending your colleague on an issue that in the grand scheme of things is meaningless compared to the real systemic problems facing this town.

Posted by
Thursday, January 17 at 04:00 PM
Has anybody Snoped the assertions of Mr. NG #208? If half of them are right, Madison needs to walk away.

Posted by
Thursday, January 17 at 04:08 PM
Thuan Do #210--listen to your son--wise beyond his years.

Posted by
Thursday, January 17 at 04:17 PM
Scott, from the San Jose Mercury News wrote a very good article on this issue and Madison today. You all might want to read it.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Thursday, January 17 at 05:10 PM
These are the pictures of the “silent demonstration” on Wednesday 16 January 2008:

http://www.vietvungvinh.com/Portal.asp?goto=VietNam/2008/20080116_05.htm

Posted by Observer
Thursday, January 17 at 08:06 PM
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_7995407?nclick_check=1

“The councilwoman concedes there is no economic argument against Little Saigon.” you are right! there is no economic reason against Little Saigon for everybody, but there must be an economic reason (or some other reasons) for HER so that she had to avoid that name with such obstinacy!

Posted by Observer
Thursday, January 17 at 08:26 PM
Herhold: Madison Nguyen needs to budge on Little Saigon
YES : NGUYEN NEEDS TO YIELD ON NAME OF DISTRICT

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_7995407?nclick_check=1

Posted by Observer
Thursday, January 17 at 10:16 PM
Has anyone read the latest Metro? In The Fly, the have a thing on Council Member Nguyen the Little Saigon Supporters, and the Office of Human Relations.

http://www.metroactive.com/metro/01.16.08/fly-0803.html

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Friday, January 18 at 12:00 AM
#228: Thank you Kathleen. This is from the article:
“ Members of the San Jose Voters for Democracy, formerly known as the Committee for Little Saigon, said they are willing to come to the table, but only to discuss whether the city will reverse its decision to name the district Saigon Business District and work to repair relations with the Vietnamese community. But there’s no way they are backing down on their demand for Nguyen to resign from the council, said Barry Hung Do, a member of the San Jose Voters for Democracy. The group, who claim the city cheated voters of the name Little Saigon, recently upped the ante on their Little Saigon campaign last week when they publicly asked Nguyen to resign or face a recall. “It’s a done deal, there is no turning back,” Do said of the group’s push for a recall. “I don’t think there is anything to negotiate about that.”

Madison Nguyen has shown herself lack of integrity and untrustworthy, since she did not keep her promises, times and times again. Moreover, she has hurt her Vietnamese constituents deeply, and seem to have no regret about that; in sum, she behaves like the communists in our old country Vietnam, and therefore, there is no question about not recalling her, since she does not deserve the seat she is occupying right now.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Friday, January 18 at 12:19 PM
Dear Mr. Christian Hemingway:

Your caring words has touched my heart profoundly and I deeply appreciate your response to my plea. I did find peace and strength after reading your gentle words.

We do have an idealistic view of a democratic process and we will never change that view as long as we are not completely assimilated to become a full American. The reason is because having lived under the oppression of the dictatorship of communism we painfully experienced endless arrest, imprisonment, torturing, looting, deception, robbing, bribery from every levels of government and in the society that a democratic process is a dream that we all have to go after. America is the only place that to all Vietnamese, we can find this dream to become true.

You said we can hold our elected officials accountable for promises that they made. The Little Saigon issue can strongly applied to this sentence of yours. Part of our agony came from our trust been violated by Madison.

You said the way we convey our frustration is an issue. I deeply appreciate your advice to demonstrate in a quiet manner. You can see we changed in response to your advice. Please see pictures of post #225. We made sure our elders who can not control the urge of crying out their agony loudly with a tape on their lips. Little by little we will change to convey our frustration politically correct in the American way and we would like to have you to open your hearts to feel our agony and to open your ears to listen to our stories and to help us to create a reconciliation for a harmonious community for a better of our city of San Jose.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 18 at 02:25 PM
Dear Steve:

You know in the Vietnamese culture if we are the same ages we call our fellow Vietnamese brothers and sisters. Luong is younger than me so I am his older Vietnamese sister. As an older sister I would like to humbly apologize for Luong ‘s demeaning remark toward you. Luong is a religious and idealistic young man. Young people they tend to act first before thinking and Luong is no exception to that. I know that he did not mean ill to you. He only reacted when he felt insulted. And I would like to tell Luong that you just said what you observed from the way we presented ourselves at the demonstration. Even though this impression is not what we truly are. So Steve again please accept my many deepest apologies. I see both sides do not mean ill to each other. You are trying to understand us and we are trying to make you understand us and somehow in the middle of the effort because of the misunderstanding we both unintentionally become alienated. So peace ok Steve? Thank you Steve!

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 18 at 05:15 PM
Let’s not lose focus of this Little Saigon debate.

For the record, NONE of the Little Saigon supporters really care what name gets applied to that little area on Story Rd.

Case in point: me. Two months ago, I wrote to the SJMN a Letters to the Editors stating that Madi$$$on is using very mysterious means to prevent the voters from having the opportunity to decide the naming of this place. At that time, the name was going to be “Viet-Nam Town” and no one had any say on it. Well, I found this to be very undemocratic so I wrote the letter to the Merc stating that I wanted to name this place “SAIGON BUSINESS DISTRICT.” The Merc even published it (you can all check it out)!

And still to this day, I have NOT changed my mind. I personally think it should be called “Saigon BD.” But since the voters have clearly demonstrated that they want the name “Little Saigon BD” in every poll conducted, I think the City should listen to the voice of the people and give it to them! But Madi$$$on is again playing some dark tricks and denying they this right by lying that certain “organizations” are behind her decision.

This is a complete LIE!!! Many individuals named in that list of “organizations” which Madi$$$on lied about stated that they never made such a claim and that old Madi$$$on totally LIED!!!

So our biggest questions are: 1) why did she have to LIE on such a small issue like this, and 2) who’s making her do all these stupid things to trouble the whole community? That’s why we’re fighting the good fight about this very mysterious and crazy woman, Madi$$$on, who will be out of office very shortly. Amen!

Your loving brother in Christ,

Luong Do

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 18 at 08:48 PM
Steve, what do you think of the real thugs in communist Viet-Nam who continue to oppress, jail and murder innocent people just for having different opinions from those of the abusive government?

Why don’t you open that mouth of yours up and fight the REAL thugs? And don’t give me this “holier-than-thou” talk! I knnnoowww people like you, Steve. Deep in your heart, you have nothing but hatred and comtempt for us free Viets because we fought against your commie heros. Your kind are the ones who protested against the VN War while smoking pot and burning the US Flag. You have no respect in my eyes so you don’t get any…

Miss Kathleen Flynn, thanks for your advice, but I’ve dealt with people like Stevie boy here my whole life and they DISGUST me. You’re right, I’ll NEVER be able to change his delusional mind, and vice versa. And I don’t care!!!

As for winning hearts and souls here, here’s what I have to say: those who love the truth will find company with me no matter what or how harsh my words are. While those who prefer a life of lies will naturally side with the likes of Madi$$$on and Steve. But keep in mind that Almighty GOD will judge us all, and HE will certainly deal with both liars AND their supporters even more harshly than my words have (Romans 1:32).

I strongly stand for the truth and have no fear of the consequence for I know what it will be. As for Madi$$$on, we also know what it will be for her, too.

Thank you.

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 18 at 09:03 PM
I find the way Madison Nguyen conducted her wedding on July 7 last year very strange and mysterious. Usually as public figures, they would let the whole public know much more about important things like their weddings, who they’re marrying, the guests, etc...But Madison chose to keep a very tight lid on it and very few, if any, reporters knew about it to report on. I don’t think she even released the name of her husband yet! Does anyone know who he is and his background?

This incident plus the fact that she is still hiding from the City the names of the “organizations” which she claims to represent the “other 50%” of voters who want the name “Saigon BD” seem very strange for a public figure. The wedding maybe a personal thing, ok, but what about the names of those “organizations,” Madison? When and why won’t you release their names? What do you have to hide if you’re not LYING to the whole City??!!!?

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 18 at 09:08 PM
Luong Do- If you want a fair and impartial judge to look into Madison’s actions, and if you want an investigation done into this issue, you can file a complaint with the Civil Grand Jury. Here is their website:
http://www.sccsuperiorcourt.org/jury/GJ.html.
It is a free service and they have forms in Vietnamese. The Civil Grand Jury is there to help citizens who feel government officials have mistreated them or that government processes were not correctly followed. I hope this information helps you find the justice and truth you need. I don’t think there is much more that can be said about this issue on my part. I wish you well, and I hope things turn out well for everyone involved.

In the summer of 1962 Dr. King remarked that,” We are simply seeking to bring into full realization the American Dream-a dream yet fulfilled. A dream of equality of opportunity, of privilege, and property widely distributed; a dream of a land when people no longer argue that the color of a person’s skin determines the content of their character; a dream where every person will respect the dignity and worth of human personality-this is the Dream. When it is realized, the jangling discords of our nation will be transformed into a beautiful symphony of personhood and people everywhere will know that America is truly the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE!

In memory of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. I wish you all peace.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Saturday, January 19 at 01:40 AM
QUESTION!
DOES SIZE REALLY MATTER?
HOW “LITTLE” WAS SAIGON? TINNY TINY, OR JUST SMALL?
DID THE WHOLE POPULATION DESERT SAIGON AND COME TO SAN JOSE’S EASTSIDE?
HAS SOMEONE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY IN THIS “LITTLE SAIGON” HANDLE?
I WONDER WHAT “SITTING BULL” WOULD HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS FEUDING? FOR THAT MATTER I WONDER WHAT GENERAL CUSTER WOULD SAY ABOUT LITTLE SAIGON BET HE HAD SECOND THOUGHTS TOO LATE AT “LITTLE BIGHORN”!
HEY I JUST GOT THE ANSWER! COMPROMISE! CALL IT “LITTLE BIG SAIGON”. BUT LET’S CALL IT! OK? YOU GUYS ARE STARTING TO SCARE ME!
D.O.A.

Posted by D.O.A.
Saturday, January 19 at 09:20 AM
232 - 234 - Thanks for making the case for the rest of us who think you are fighting the wrong battle in the wrong country. If you are going to let the old wounds continue to fester you will never move forward. You have damaged the chance for another Vietnamese candidate to be elected anytime in the near future, you have shown your community to be intolerant, belligerent, rude, and lacking in a common understanding of democracy. The accusations of someone being a communist are distasteful beyond belief—look up the history of the communist witch hunts of the 1950s. You should be trying to make alliances with the non-Vietnamese community, but instead, you push us away with your refusal to understand that you have been treated no differently than the rest of us.
The sooner you understand the concept of “you win some, you lose some” the better off we will all be.

Posted by Casey
Saturday, January 19 at 10:54 AM
Julie # 230 wrote:"and we will never change that view as long as we are not completely assimilated to become a full American.”

Julie: if you are not interested in becoming American, perhaps you should emigrate to a place where you would be willing to assimilate, since clearly and by your own admission, this place is not for you.

Luong #234: you can’t figure out why Madison Nguyen did not publicize her wedding plans? Think about it! If she did, you and your friends might have shown up to ruin her wedding day; and you probably would have accused her husband of being a communist.

Jeez, are we going through Vietnamese McCarthyism here?

I believe Madison and the entire council who voted for ANY name made a HUGE mistake even getting involved. But you recall Madison folks are poster children for the problems of so-called diversity.

This isn’t post-war Viet Nam. This is SJ, CA, USA. The city government should never have become involved in any of this naming-a-business-district-after-some-ethnic-group nonsense. That is the province of the business district business owners, not the city. But the PC government types who think it’s imprtant to have a bunch of hypenated Americans thought otherwise. OH WELL.

If you folks wanted to fight over a communist vs. an anti-communist name, I just don’t give a damn, and neither should the city have done so. But Chuck in his Vietnamese costume (did he look ridiculous, or what?) thought otherwise, and so did lots of other pandering politicians. OH Well. HUGE MISTAKE.

My first set of inlaws came here from Russia, via Manchuria where they were eductaed, through Korea, to SF. They kept their Russian Orthodox religioin alive and their Russian language alive AT HOME. Other than that, they assimilated into American business and social culture, learned the language, and both contributed and prospered. Frankly, that’s what made this country great. The devisiveness of hyphenated Americans is shattering us.

When so-called diversity, rather than assimilation, becomes the GOAL, it becomes devisiveness. Now we have to press one for English. Should people be able to press one for other languages? Absolutely! No problemo. That’s commerce. It makes perfect economic sense to reach out to foreign language speakers in commerce. But in government services? NOPE. To have to press anything for English in any context is just plain wrong. Hyphenated Americans should be discouraged, not encouraged.

And when people live here for twenty years, and have to talk through an interpreter when they win the Lotto, they are insulting our country...the country that gave them more prosperity than they could ever have achieved in their native country. After all, that’s why they left “their country"and came here, isn’t it? And after all they received here, they still don’t consider this their country...even though “their country” gave them nothing. They refuse to show respect to the country that gave them their propsperity by even making an attempt to speak in the language of this country.

This nonsense about a “path to citizenship” is truly ridiculous. Does anyone really think that the hordes of hard-working Mexicans who risk life and limb to come to El Norte really want to become US citizens? Many have families at home, to whom they send all their extra $$$. Most have ZERO interest in becoming Americans. They are here simply because they can’t make enough pesos @ home to support the numerous kids the Pope makes them have, since he doesn’t allow birth control.

So, we (especially the border counties) get many of the problem pregnancies from Panama north, increased property crimes perpetrated by illegals (oops, can’t say that, it’s anti-diversity), provide translators for the criminals, keep them in our jails at our cost before deporting them only AFTER they have served their sentences here, after which they return in a day or two.

I welcome EVERYONE willing to come here to work and contribute to the system by paying taxes. But a path to citizenship? Most aren’t interested. To everyone else, including those born here who are unwilling to work, I am more than willing to say goodbye. It’s a real myth that illegals take jobs from “Americans”. “Americans” won’t work as hard as the average illegal Mexican for low wages.

Enough ranting for me for today.

Posted by
Saturday, January 19 at 12:18 PM
#238: Dear johnmichael o’connor,
I don’t know about Mexicans, but for Vietnamese immigrants, I know these things:
1-They all want to become US citizens, except for the communists.
2-They all want to learn English but some are not able to learn because they are too old or having passed through too much trauma in the communist system of Vietnam
3-They don’t have many chance to speak/practice English if they don’t work with non-Vietnamese people, so they speak mostly Vietnamese, especially the elderly.
4-Most second generation Vietnamese are Americanized, for example my sons, who came here when they were 6, 7 years old, now behave more like Americans than Vietnamese.
5-We pay attention to our old country Vietnam because people there still suffer under the communist regime. If the country is no more communist, we would pay attention to other things and enjoy life much more.
6-The news from our country are often bad: Oppression of dissidents, the rotten goverment put people to the streets and take their houses and lands, creating manifestations everywhere in the country, the rotten government signed unfair treatments with the China and lost lots of lands and seas to China etc… and that’s the reason of our concerns and preoccupations.

If you don’t understand our heat and passion about certain subjects (for example communism, etc..), I can understand that, since you are not Vietnamese.
Thanks for reading.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Saturday, January 19 at 04:38 PM
Dear Mr. Johnmichael O’connor:

This is another misundertanding because of language barrier. I love America more than you could know. I am an American citizen and have been living in this country 2/3 of my life. When I am emotional, I express myself in English instead of Vietnamese, I speak English in my dream. I love all Americans with all my heart whether they are black, Mexican, or white as much as I love my fellow Vietnameses. Personally I think that” fully assimilated “only happens when you are born in America. That when you don’t know much about your mother language, culture and history. You don’t have any connection with your parents’ motherland. It is when the assimiltation process is ended and you become full American. I am repeating my statement again That we will never change the idealistic view about a democratic process as long as we are not full Americans. Some of the posts in this forum stated that as an American you don’t believe in your own democratic process. If I am fully American like all of you, I will have the same belief that there is no such democracy in America. But the Vietnamese people are idealistic people and we faithfully believe in democracy. We don’t have it under the Communist Regime and we come here with an enormous expectation that we finally find it in this land of greatness.

Julie Nguyen

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, January 19 at 06:56 PM
Dear Mr. Johnmichael O’connor:

All the Vietnamese are very proud to be American. I can tell you a story about my father who passed away 6 years ago. When he fisrt got he citizenship he walked around our house and asked everyone “Do you know who am I?” we all knew what the answer was but pretended that we did not know. And he said “I am Mr. American, and your mother now married to a Mr. American you know?”. Once you passed a certain age, learning a foreign language is impossible. You can try to learn a foreign language at your age now and you will come to understand why many elderly immigrants can not speak English and have sympathy for them. America is a great country because of its diversity. Everyone in the world comes here and feels at home here. We all treat everyone with the same dignity and everyone is identical under the law.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Saturday, January 19 at 07:38 PM
Johnmichael o’connor,

First off, please don’t speak for us regarding Madi$$$on’s wedding. If there’s anyone who would have “ruined” her wedding, it would be the reporters and papparrazzi (sp?).

But that doesn’t explain my other question: who are the “organizations” that Maddy girl claims to want the name “New Saigon BD?”

WHO ARE THEY MADI$$$ON, YOU LIAR!!!

Posted by
Saturday, January 19 at 11:49 PM
Julie #240 said:"Personally I think that” fully assimilated “only happens when you are born in America.” Interesting and thoughtful comment. I’ll have to ponder that issue a while.

I have only a few Vietnamese acquaintances. They are all business people. Their predominant attitude is to move forward, not think back to all the problems in Viet Nam. One of them spent time in the camps between his first escape attempt and his second, which was successful.

In the ‘50s in the USA, we struggled with McCarthyism--where the worst thing you could accuse someone of being was a Communist. We got over that, and Senator McCarthy was disgraced throughout the country for his excesses. To revive this red baiting is counterproductive in this country, although it seems to be the slur of choice among Vietnamese. To use PC news-speak, it’s “The “C” word.” It may have meaning among the Vietnamese community, but it’s just silly to most Americans theswe days.

Julie #241: I’m 61, and I’m learning a new language. Don’t feed me that nonsense that an elderly person cannot learn a new language. And where does “old” begin, Julie? I see people in their 30’s who have been here 20 years, and they’re still speaking their “native” language and REFUSE to speak English. This country did not become great because it celebrated so-called diversity. it became great because people assimilated, even while maintaining their former culture. These days, they just maintain their former culture/language, and so will always be an underclass.

No-one expects that every foreigner who comes here will speak perfect, unaccented English. The vast majority nof Americans will work hard to understand someone speaking highly-accented, ungrammatical English, just as we would hope people to do when we are in their country butchering their language. But to fail to make the attempt, and say it’s because your too old---I’m sorry, I don’t buy that at all.

I am traveling abroad in a few weeks, so I’m trying to learn enough of that country’s language to show respect and get by. That’s all most of us expect of people who immigrate here.

#242--you’re catchion on--At least you didn’t call Madison “YOU COMMUNIST LIAR!!!”

Posted by
Sunday, January 20 at 11:04 AM
JohnMichael O’Connor #243: Learning a new language is REALLY difficult. I came here (California) in 1989, finishing my BS and MS in computer science here, so I am supposed not to be stupid, right? But before that, in 1988-89, (I was 44 then), I spent 14 months in Hong Kong camps, and the only words I leaned were “ngap phan, xao ong choi” which are “rice with duck, fry vegetable” so that I could tell the waiters, waitresses to serve me my favorite foods when I went to restaurants. (On the contrary, the young people in the camps learned Chinese very fast, and they could even quarrel with the Hong Kong policemen after they live there for a few months).

If you are smart and have a good memory to learn new languages easily, please don’t blame other middle age people who could not learn a new language. I learned French and English when I was young, and it’s easy for me to continue to do so when I am old, but not for the people who never learned a language other than their native one.
Also, it’s easy for you westerners to learn foreign languages with latin root: they are very much similar, but not for other people to learn your languages: too strange!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Sunday, January 20 at 03:32 PM
Why don’t the Vietnamese merchants simply rename a shopping center “Little Saigon” and that way it makes them happy and keeps the city out of an area which is not its function? I worked in East Palo Alto for several years back when the merchants named a shopping center “Nairobi Village” which I do not think is still there, but was done privately, not via the city.

I come from roots in which my ancestors were slaves and built pyramids for the Egyptians, were killed during inquisitions, driven out of Prussia, slaughtered by the millions in World War II in Germany, and to this day live with millions of enemies in this world ie religious zealots who want nothing less than all Jews killed and Israel, their homeland, destroyed. With all this said, I am not anticipating San Jose renaming an area “Little Jerusalem” or “Little Tel Aviv” in the near future nor do I want them to. Everyone in San Jose has relatives who were the victims of atrocities; that is what we all have in common. Pain is pain, no one particular group has more pain, or deserves more recognition for its pain, than another group does. By understanding the pain of my own peoples roots, I can empathize with the pain of other groups. I will never be able to walk in their shoes, no matter how many signs they put up. Putting up signs will not cause someone from outside that group to suddenly understand what pain that group went through many years ago. Only assimilation into society will enlighten others, like every ethnic group who has assimilated in the United States has discovered. You can wear your pain on your sleeve which tends to turn others both off and away, or you can share your pain through humility and dignity, which draws other towards you and commonalities are discovered.

A city should not be in the business of throwing up signs segregating a population any more than they should be segregating schools. If merchants want to pool their money and privately change the name of a shopping center for whatever reason, they have every right to do so, although it may have unintended business consequences and make the non Vietnamese feel unwelcome.

The actions towards Madison Nguyen will make it a hard choice for a non Vietnamese citizen to vote for a Vietnamese candidate in the future. Apparently, the Vietnamese community here is still emboiled in the turmoil of communist Vietnam, and us non Vietnamese citizens will tend to play it safe and vote for a perhaps less qualified non Vietnamese candidate, rather than see us go through this again.

Posted by Steve
Sunday, January 20 at 06:36 PM
#245 Dear Steve,
I think that the Vietnamese community did not mean to show their pain by using the name “Little Saigon” to designate their business area in San Jose. I think that they have nostagia of Saigon and want to have a small dear area not far from their houses, for them to come together, that can represent their dear old country, their old Saigon in South Vietnam that they lost, before they are able to come back to Vietnam and reverse the name of Ho Chi Minh city back to Saigon city again, after the fall of the communist regime, at a time not very far from now, they hope.

The issue can also be that they love Little Saigon of Southern California, and they want to have a similar thing in San Jose.

The problem is that they were deceived by unscrupulous politicians who promised good things but deliver fake things, and they were hurt. They want the justice, since deceivers and cheaters are not much different than thiefs, and those must be punished, in their opinions. Maybe they are naive, but God love children and humble and naive people, isn’t it true?

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Sunday, January 20 at 09:36 PM
#243
Dear Mr. Johnmichael O’connor:

Generally speaking, when we immigrate to a new land and for the purpose of survival we always have to learn the language to be able to adapt quickly to the new environment. Having the language will help us to have good opportunities to make money to have a good life. The language will help us to assimilate and to get along with people around us. Language therefore is clearly a necessity that all immigrants will love to try to achieve first.

Our level of education, the opportunities to be able to learn the language will determine how fast we can learn a language. People in life are all very different. Each of us has our own limitation and ability. To judge people on what they cannot do without knowing their situations is critical.

I don’t know why some people in their 30’s who have been here for 20 years, and they’re still speaking their “native” language and REFUSE to speak English because I don’t know their situations. But for those elders I will never question their inability to speak English.

I would like you to educate me on how diversity harms America. To me one of the things that make America great is diversity. In this global market that we are currently in, diversity will give America the competitive advantage, it gives us constant new innovations and ideas to compete with the global market. The resource of diversified human power is the valuable asset that none of the countries in the world can compete with America. Diversity also helps us to become more understanding and tolerant to others needs and feelings. This tolerance will promote a peaceful and harmonious society.

I will respond the rest of your post on my next post to you.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, January 21 at 12:40 AM
#245
Dear Steve:

I appreciate your thought to us in your #245. Communication is the only way to help to narrow our misunderstanding and help to get us closer. Reading from your post #245 I can tell you and Mr. Johnmichael O’connor that you clearly have a wrong impression about us and our cause. I will explain this wrong impression to you and to Mr. Johnmichael O’connor in my next post to both of you. It will take a couple of days because it is going to be a long story. I am very delighted with the tone of your post.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, January 21 at 01:01 AM
To Steve #245.
That is what some Vietnamese people asked to the group that supported the name Little Saigon too. And some information just came out.
1- In the corner of Story Road and Mc Laughlin, a small shopping is named Little Saigon Plaza II few years ago. But even Vietnamese people did not know or use that name, because like I wrote before, when Vietnamese say Little Saigon, they mean Little Saigon in the South California (Garden Grove, Westminster...) I was very surprise to hear that, but I did confirm that by driving around and I did see the sign clearly marked “Little Saigon Plaza II”.
2- Also one post that create a lot of buzz in the Vietnamese forums that contradict what the Little Saigon’s supporters always use. That’s “The communists from Vietnam hate the name of Little Saigon, because in Southern California, Little Saigon area, the law (issued by two cities) is that no Vietnamese communist officer from Vietnam can show off in public without having to pay for the police to protect him or her. Those cities would not pay for the police.” (post #144). One person posted in some Vietnamese Forums to prove otherwise. It showed that:
- The Vietnamese government did invest money (2004) in some projects that have the name Little Saigon. That post has a link to the Vietnam’s government website to show the permission for a Vietnam’s company to invest money for a project Little Saigon in Bakerfield.
- That post also show Vietnamese’s papers also had an article about the grand opening plan for a Little Saigon Plaza in Sacramento (2006)…

In summary, right now the issue become bigger and bigger inside the Vietnamese community. But some information started to come out to show that the Little Saigon supporters may have different agenda and they just used the Little Saigon as their front and then tricked some elders people to go to the demonstrations every Tuesday. It will be interesting to see how the Little Saigon supporters group will answer that post.

Posted by in San Jose
Monday, January 21 at 04:09 PM
Diversity is a good thing, if it is not an end in itself. Diversity helped make this country great. It provided us all with different points of view and helps balance us out. However, when so-called diversity becomes an end in itself, it becomes exclusionary, not inclusionary. Some of our money carries the phrase: E Pluribus Unum--From many, one. The exclusionary part of diversity keeps us from being one; and it was one nation that saved Europe and the world from Hitler and Tojo.

My former in-laws maintained their culture and religion AT HOME, but became completely “Americanized” in their business life.

The worship of diversity for it’s own sake keeps people apart, in my view.

Today’s Mercury News noted that only 19% of Mexicans who get green cards bother to become US citizens. That doesn’t count the “illegals”. So, we have a bunch of people living and working here who have no loyalty or allegiance to this country, but they’ll line up for all the freebies; expect to have government agencies speak to them in their native language, and the “diversity crowd” thinks that’s OK. Well, I don’t think it’s OK.

I understand it is much more difficult for an older person to learn a new language. However, if you don’t try, you’ll never learn anything new. Most people do not expect immigrants to learn to speak perfectly. I know when I visit a foreign country, the best I ever do is to learn the past and present tenses of important verbs, and a few future conjugations. I’m sure my accent stinks. I don’t expect any more of people who come to live here, but I don’t expect any less, either.

I spoke today with a Vietnamese gentleman who owns a business here. He tried twice to escape VietNam. The first time he was caught and sent to a reeducation campt. The second time the boat he was on ran out of fuel and they drifted for days before being spotted by a merchant ship. He came here, learned English, had a career, and now owns a small business. He has read about this Little Saigon controversy in Vietnamese lan guage newspapaers, and he says he just cannot understand all the fuss all y’all are making about it. So I told him he’d likely be accused of being a communist by your crowd if he ever came out publicly with his views, despite the fact that the commies put him in a camp.

This portion of the blog is entitled “A needless controversy?” Most of us say, yes, it is a needless controversy.

As my Vietnamese businessman friend says--"Move on!”

Posted by
Monday, January 21 at 05:05 PM
JohnMichhael,

Please reread all my posts which I have written and you will see that I NEVER called Maddy girl a commie. You know I’m much smarter than that, so please don’t pretend to have taught me anything…

Also, what’s the problem of knowing Maddison’s girl beau? How can we even call him a commie if we don’t even know who he is? LOL

Posted by in San Jose, CA
Monday, January 21 at 07:07 PM
Steve: Only assimilation into society will enlighten others, like every ethnic group who has assimilated in the United States has discovered.

Luong: Sure Jewish Steve. How about you assimilate yourself into my Protestant Christian religion because it will not only SAVE you from eternal HELL, but it is THE dominate American religion? THINK: 99.99% of the Founding Fathers were Protestant Christians, NOT Jews.

Also, forget all the suffering that your people have faced over the past 4,500 years...And don’t teach your children about your Jewish past, too.

It’s perfectly ok for you to speak for us Viets, but no thanks. You can keep your cheap talk to yourself, buddy.

We free Viets want to keep our culture, language, lifestyle and especially our love for freedom and justice that existed before the fascist red commie bastards invaded and stole our country. We want to continue to pass down our traditions and experiences to our future generations while learning all the best that America has to offer and thrive it in until one day in the very near future, we will return to a free Constitutional Viet Republic. We will apply all our talents and skills to rebuild our beloved Motherland which the red fascists have destroyed and turn it into a second Japan, if not better, under the blessings of Almighty GOD. In JESUS’s Holy Name, amen!

SHALOM, Steve!!! LOL

Posted by in San Jose, CA
Monday, January 21 at 07:38 PM
Reposted for Vu to see. That’s the only favor I’ll for him. But getting the coffee is up to him…

**************************************
Let’s not lose focus of this Little Saigon debate.

For the record, NONE of the Little Saigon supporters really care what name gets applied to that little area on Story Rd.

Case in point: me. Two months ago, I wrote to the SJMN a Letters to the Editors stating that Madi$$$on is using very mysterious means to prevent the voters from having the opportunity to decide the naming of this place. At that time, the name was going to be “Viet-Nam Town” and no one had any say on it. Well, I found this to be very undemocratic so I wrote the letter to the Merc stating that I wanted to name this place “SAIGON BUSINESS DISTRICT.” The Merc even published it (you can all check it out)!

And still to this day, I have NOT changed my mind. I personally think it should be called “Saigon BD.” But since the voters have clearly demonstrated that they want the name “Little Saigon BD” in every poll conducted, I think the City should listen to the voice of the people and give it to them! But Madi$$$on is again playing some dark tricks and denying they this right by lying that certain “organizations” are behind her decision.

This is a complete LIE!!! Many individuals named in that list of “organizations” which Madi$$$on lied about stated that they never made such a claim and that old Madi$$$on totally LIED!!!

So our biggest questions are: 1) why did she have to LIE on such a small issue like this, and 2) who’s making her do all these stupid things to trouble the whole community? That’s why we’re fighting the good fight about this very mysterious and crazy woman, Madi$$$on, who will be out of office very shortly. Amen!

Your loving brother in Christ,

Luong Do

Posted by in San Jose, CA
Monday, January 21 at 08:16 PM
johnmichael o’connor #250: you can’t use one person (your friend) as a model for others to act like him: My ex-husband was also put into a prison in Vietnam for four months when he tried to flee Vietnam by boat, after spending 5.5 years in reeducation camps, like your friend, but he never cares about politic, before or after the fall of Vietnam. He was a soldier only because he was drafted. On the contrary, I am anti-communist, although I was not a soldier or a goverment officer of South Vietnam. It depends on the mentality of each person only. I think of what’s good for people in general, and my ex. thinks only of his small person and small family. Something is important in your eyes can be unimportant in other people’s view, so we can only try to understand what other people are thinking and acting, and not condemn them because they do not see things like we do.

Vu Nguyen #249: Little Saigon Plaza is not the same as Little Saigon area or business district, since a plaza is only a private mall. Madison can open ten shops in San Jose and call them Little Saigon 1, Little Saigon 2, etc.. without recomforting her Vietnamese constituents whom she disappointed. The Vietnamese communist government can open as many big companies with the name of “Little Saigon” as they want, nothing will save Madison from her bad reputation of tricking and deceiving people with her ruses to avoid the name of “Little Saigon” that thousands of people asked for, in the night of 20 November 2007. Don’t try to digress from the subject, that Madison has not been straightforward, and now she has to answer why she did not use “Little Saigon” (that came first on the poll) and use a name (SBD) that came last on the poll instead?
Her saying that “the name SBD was a compromise” is obviously a lie.
If her refusal of the name of “Little Saigon” was not to please some secret big boss, then I don’t know why she did not use “Little Saigon” to please most of her constituents, those who had helped her to get her seat with the city council.
If she says that MOST of her constituents prefer New Saigon, then why don’t they raise their voice now, and make a big demonstration to show support for Madison and save her from a recall?
The polls on the Mercury News website tell otherwise.

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Monday, January 21 at 08:27 PM
Casey, thank you for stating exactly what I’ve been thinking (and probably many others). If this is how the vietnamese community behaves over a simple non-issue of a business area name while ignoring the very real and pressing problems in the area, I will never, ever, vote for a vietnamese candidate, be it for school board or president. the actions of a few have tarnished the reputation of an entire group. “childish” is an understatement. I can visualize these posters stamping their feet as they post. the arguments presented have become more and more laughable as time goes on. get mad about crime rates. get mad about gangs. get mad about something substantive - call your dogs from orange county in to fix the real problems in your area, the ones that drive your children to join gangs and take drugs, not this stupid, stupid issue.

absolutely ridiculous. next, please.

Posted by ----
Tuesday, January 22 at 08:58 AM
Julie #254 wrote:"you can’t use one person (your friend) as a model for others to act like him.” Actually, Julie, yes I can. I can use it to point out that there is another valid point of view on this issue. You may choose not to accept it, but it is out there among the Vietnames community in SJ (not Orange County).

Actually, what surprises me even more is that I am still posting on a subject that has ZERO impact on my life. I struggle to think of anything more meaningless to me than what a couple of blocks on the East Side may be called. I am concerned though, now, since I learned today in the Murky News that $100k has been set aside for signage for this little bit of Eden. That $100k is another reason why we have a structural budget deficit. Spending that sum of $$ for signs to promote private businesses serving such a small segment of our population is obscene. How much health care could that buy for kids mentally crippled by the lead leaking out of the fuel of airplanes doing touch and goes from Reid Hillview airport?

We have to stop spending precious $$ on B.S. like signage for a 2 block business district. Let the business owners pay for them.

Yet, it is clear that this subject has garnered more interest and comment on SJI than any five other subjects combined.

Today in the Murky News Chuck Reed said that he and the council are sticking by their guns. It takes a big person to admit a mistake, especially a huge mistake like this was--getting the city officially involved in selecting a name for a little section of town. Obviously, no such big persons are currently sitting on the council...except for those that voted against the proposal to begin with. Chuck and the majority of the council have circled the wagons around Madison and themselves; they refuse to admit they made a major miscalculation by getting involved at all. Sticking their collective heads in the sand will NOT make this issue go away.

To my way of thinking, the only right thing to do is reverse the decision and take no official position on the name of this so-called “district”, make it clear that the city will not take an official position in naming this or any other business district, put the $100k set aside for signage to good use, and most importantly, apologize to EVERYONE for their incredible gaffe, and then get down to cutting other B.S. expenditures and get back to basics.

For Chrissakes, we have huge unfunded liabilities, our streets suck to the tune of HALF A BILLION DOLLARS, and the council is jerking around with naming a couple of blocks of businesses!!! INCREDIBLE!!!

Oh, and somewhere in the mist, they voted to start charging for parking again in downtown parking lots on weekends. So, yet another reason for folks to AVOID coming downtown. Way 2 Go, Abi & the mayor and the council.

Posted by
Tuesday, January 22 at 02:46 PM
johnmichael o’connor #256: I agree with you, don’t use that big sum of 100,000 dollars for an unpopular and useless sign! That’s ridiculous! It’s better to use it to feed orphans or homeless people!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Tuesday, January 22 at 03:35 PM
#256

How much health care could that buy for kids mentally crippled by the lead leaking out of the fuel of airplanes doing touch and goes from Reid Hillview airport?

That is not a bad idea. We could test a lot of children in this area for that amount of money. It would be interesting to also test a control group, such as children in Cupertino, to see what difference, if any, there is between the two groups.

Aerial photo of area directly affected by Reid-Hillview aircraft flying in circles practicing takeoffs and landings. Increase the magnification to 125% or 150% to get a better idea of the schools and homes directly negatively affected by RHV.

http://www.reidhillview.com/RHV_brochure.pdf

Posted by Bud
Tuesday, January 22 at 05:21 PM
#252 Luong,

You wrote to me in post #25,

“Jewish Steve. How about you assimilate yourself into my Protestant Christian religion because it will not only SAVE you from eternal HELL, but it is THE dominate American religion? THINK: 99.99% of the Founding Fathers were Protestant Christians, NOT Jews.

Also, forget all the suffering that your people have faced over the past 4,500 years...And don’t teach your children about your Jewish past, too.”

I do not think you collectively speak for the Vietnamese community, and I think most Vietnamese would be disgusted by your comments towards Jews. You do speak for
religious zealots and bigots from every ethnic and racial group who preach ignorance, intolerance and hatred.

Posted by Steve
Tuesday, January 22 at 05:58 PM
252 - Your anti-Jewish comments are misguided and not welcome here. You have a very bizarre way of trying to make your case by insulting others.
You have lost all credibility on this blog but I realize you have the right to continue to post your off-base comments. Good luck with your battle—it will be a long, long time before you can declare a win—if ever.

Posted by How Lo Can U Goh
Tuesday, January 22 at 06:02 PM
To Stevie boy and the nameless (although funny) coward “How Loooooow Can U Go” :

First of all, I have to say how much laughter I got from your two posts! LOL!!! Especially from post #260! LOL!! I have to definately save these two posts on my Word doc and archive them! LOL!!! Thanks for those two funny posts. You guys really made my day.

Now on to the discusssion (LOL!!! sorry but I’m trying my best not to be overcomed by laughter here! LOL!!!)…

Again Stevie boy, you’re missing the point. I was trying to parallel your earlier statement to us free Viets to forget our ancient culture (perhaps the most ancient in the history of mankind BTW) and suffering under the bloody hands of the red commies and assimilate into mainstream American culture. And now, you’re crying when the table is turned against you? LOL!!!!! OOOHHH MAN, I LOVE THAT!!!!!

Well, TOUGH!!!

If you think my comment, which merely mirrors your previous one, is “disgusting”, “low” or arrogant, that’s how we feel when reading yours. Again, don’t speak for us!!!

Words from the wise: Don’t throw stones at your neighbor’s house if your house has windows, too (Benjamin Franklin).

I would think you Jews would be the most sympathic to us Viets, but I guess not. And I thank Almighty GOD for this, too, because we should ONLY look up to JESUS and our own hands for help, and not to those of other people. THANK YOU, JESUS!!!

Hmmmm...I wonder who “How Loooooww” could be...you know who it is Stevie boy? LOL!!! He posted his post within minutes of yours. LOL!!!!

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 22 at 07:09 PM
johnmichael o’connor:"you can’t use one person (your friend) as a model for others to act like him.” Actually, Julie, yes I can. I can use it to point out that there is another valid point of view on this issue. You may choose not to accept it, but it is out there among the Vietnames community in SJ.

Luong: Okay, and that’s just one or two people thinking like that. His voice is out there, but it’s not part of the mainstream. So what?

johnmichael o’connor: We have to stop spending precious $$ on B.S. like signage for a 2 block business district. Let the business owners pay for them.

Luong: Tell that to Maddy girl. Your fire is totally misdirected, buddy. Point it to Madi$$$on and Chuckee-Cheese-the-Rat in your letters and phone calls to them.

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 22 at 07:18 PM
Would someone please tell the nameless sleepy-head who wrote post #255 to read post #253 (that’s only two posts above from his/her/its post) to get his/her/its head on straight regarding this Little Saigon matter?

This is the second time I’ve posted it so please don’t claim ignorance as an excuse if your problem is really that of laziness…

Also, maybe Vu Nguyen can give you some of his coffee to help your senses functioning correctly, too. Good luck!

Posted by in San Jose
Tuesday, January 22 at 07:31 PM
Jack,
I think some of these posts are uncalled for. I know you want to allow everyone their opinion, but the name calling, personal attacks, and border line racism is counter productive, and is really getting to be concerning. Any thoughts on stopping this?

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Tuesday, January 22 at 08:23 PM
261 - 263 - Wow. How unfortunate you seem to be the spokesperson for the Vietnamese community. I would have hoped that a more rational and mature individual would be the one to represent the Vietnamese community, instead we have a flame-throwing babbler who hides behind Jesus as he hurls his insults. Not the best person to have out front speaking for your community. Oh well, it just makes the case many of us have been making. You don’t want support you just want to yell and scream and push away potential supporters. Too bad.

Posted by How Lo Can U Goh
Tuesday, January 22 at 08:33 PM
#259: Dear Steve,
Of course, Luong Do was only sarcastic; he doesn’t mean any harm to you. You have all the rights in the world to keep your religion and your grudges against the Nazi, as we have against the communists. If the Nazi was still there, you would be much bitterer against them, as we are against the communists. Understanding others and accepting their differences is what makes this country great. When I first came to the United States, I was moved by the friendly smiles of the people I met on the streets of Santa Ana, when they saw me in strange clothing given to me by the refugee camps in Hong Kong. It’s much different than the curiosity eyeing that I got when I walked on the street of some rural area in France, in the 1960’s.
This is what I wrote in 1990, one year after I came to the United States:
“Despite all these culture conflicts, most Asian students manage to earn their way through schools, colleges and become respectable United States citizens. Inside this country, there still are many ethnic communities where people from ethnic groups come to share their lives, trade foods, and celebrate festivals. That adds to the diversity of American life and helps mainstream American people to understand more easily other people in the world.”
In this essay: http://www.butvang.org/ics-uci/public_html/ea/Asian.html

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, January 23 at 09:38 AM
Melting pot is a derogatory term for what happens to a person when he doesn’t know his culture.

America is more like a “mosaic”. We each see the world with a different lens and we each shine in a different manner. Together we make a great work of art.

Now, that is the America I know and love. I hope others share my views and embrace our roots as well as celebrate the diversity we have here in San Jose.

E Pluribus Unum.

Dan

Posted by Dan Smith in San Jose
Wednesday, January 23 at 02:37 PM
#267- Very beautifully put. I agree 100%.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Wednesday, January 23 at 03:02 PM
#267 and #268: Dan and Kathleen: Yes, I hope that we immigrants would not “melt” down completely and forget about our roots. We would be “rootless”, helas!

Posted by Thuan Do in Orange County
Wednesday, January 23 at 03:40 PM
To “How Loooooow can U go”

Sometimes when you deal with certain people who are so lost, you gotta hit them with the Truth! Yes, it hurts and yes, my words are harsh, but tell me how you can crack those hardheads of theirs?

And don’t hand me this kissy-pooo line about how nice and sweet I have to be! READ the whole book of Matthews (especially the part when our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST was in the Temple) to see how HE dealt with hypocritical liars and lovers of lies. See how harshly HE dealt with those lying trash!

And regarding your comment about how I don’t want support, you’re correct. I DON’T want support from any lover of liars! I DON’T neeeeeeed them!!!

All of us here have clearly and articulately presented the case against Madison and how deceitfully she lied to the public. And after all of this, some people still have the audacity to stand besides her, may someone help them for Almighty GOD won’t. Remember that GOD not only HATES the liars and unrepentant sinners, but their HELPERS as well (Romans 1:32). I have warned you many times about this very important Biblical punishment, so don’t blame me for not telling you about it!!!

And Steve, please don’t hide behind the name “How Lo U can Goh” anymore. At first, it was funny, now it’s getting a bit old…

Posted by in San Jose
Wednesday, January 23 at 05:41 PM
Luong,

Sorry, but me and “How Lo U can Goh” are not one and the same any more than you are really Jerry Falwell.

Posted by Steve
Thursday, January 24 at 12:50 AM
San Jose Voters For Democracy
P.O. Box: 0 , San Jose, CA 95151 – 0015
Phones: 408-786-5875 & 408-608-5632
http://www.sjvoters4democracy.com

To: Steve Preminger, Chair at Santa Clara County Democratic Party (SCCDP)

Cc: Democratic National Committee Chairperson, Howard Dean
Congressman Mike Honda, 15th Congressional District, California
Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, 16th Congressional District, California

Dear Mr. Preminger,
The San Jose Voters For Democracy (SJVFD) strongly request that you and the other officers of the SCCDP Central Committee withdraw the publication of the so-called “Anti-Recall Resolution” submitted by Clark Williams at the January 10th, 2008 meeting of the SCCDP Central Committee for the following reasons:

- The SCCDP will divide the Democratic Party at the State and Central levels in relation to a local, but significant, issue that your organization has neither taken the time to understand thoroughly, nor bothered to investigate the root cause, controversy over the naming of a business district.
- Division will take place at various levels within the Democratic Party since opinions will vary when the whole issue has been carefully examined in detail.

- The Democratic Party will definitely lose an important pivotal, strong voting block, the majority of the Vietnamese-American community throughout the United States.

- The SJVFD has called for the most democratic way of dealing with an elected official who no longer receives the trust or confidence of the Vietnamese-American community in San Jose. The recall of an elected official need not be based on malfeasance.

- The call for a vote of no confidence in Councilmember Nguyen is certainly not based on a difference of opinions on a single issue, but is instead due to the consistent lack of transparency with which Councilmember Nguyen has handled this whole issue, as well as many other issues in the past which are of interest to the Vietnamese-American community.

- Councilmember Nguyen has visibly demonstrated dereliction of the public trust in not acting upon the majority voice in the same community that promoted her to elected public office.

It is ironic that the very cause for the call for a vote of no confidence in Councilmember Nguyen is largely due to the undemocratic act committed by her and the San Jose City Council; yet the Democratic Party has now come out to oppose a democratic process to deal with an elected official who no longer receives the confidence of her constituents.

Release of this so-called “Anti-Recall” resolution only hurts and divides the Democratic Party which needs to strengthen and unite to face the upcoming challenge of the Presidential Election in November 2008. Therefore, we strongly believe that the SCCDP Central Committee must act quickly to retract this unnecessary resolution before unpredictable consequences are felt from the public and from the members of the Democratic Party throughout the United States.

Regards,

Barry Hung Do

Member, Executive Board
San Jose Voters for Democracy

Posted by messenger in San Jose
Thursday, January 24 at 01:50 PM
#272- Mr. Do,
You live in the United States now and while I do not agree with this “Anti-Recall Resolution,” it is their God given right to do this. In the US we are allowed the beauty and freedom of freedom of expression. Isn’t that one of the reasons you came here and despise communism so much? While you have some good points on the division it will cause in the community, I can tell you this, as a life long Democrat, I will be changing my party affiliation to Independent because I am sick and tired of the way the Democratic Party has behaved in recent years.
Even though I support the name, “Little Saigon,” and think that due process was not followed in this issue, I personally believe that both your side, and the side of Madison Nguyen need to work this out, without further delay because it is an issue that is already dividing our community, as evidenced by this latest “Anti-Recall Resolution” effort.

I am not surprised that Steve Preminger, Chair at Santa Clara County Democratic Party (SCCDP) is doing this. If you look at his behavior during our last Mayoral race, you will see this type of inappropriate behavior is commonplace for him. I would not hold my breath waiting for him to respond to your request, as Mr. Preminger seems to feel his acitions are not something he is accountable for to the rest of us Democrats.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Thursday, January 24 at 02:31 PM
272 - Are you serious? You have yet to make a case for recall and this epistle certainly doesn’t do it. Granted you have the right to launch a recall but do you care about the monetary cost as well as the community damage you will cause?
Recall is a tool of democracy that should be used very carefully. We saw it abused in the case of Gray Davis and we may see it abused again in D7.
You speak as if only Vietnamese live in D7 and as if Madison only represents Vietnamese people. Your thought process seems very narrow very biased. What about all of the other ethnic groups in D7 and the rest of San Jose?
It is very clear you are upset but I believe you have let your anger blind you to rational behavior.
Now you want the local Dem party to back your poor judgement? Is there no end to this?

Posted by Sari
Thursday, January 24 at 02:38 PM
#274- Sari,
We just celebrated Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for his great struggles and contributions to our fine country. Do you know how many people spat on him and his people when they marched for our right to equality? Do you know how many African Americans died fighting for their rights? Do you know your comments do not differ from many of the comments made about every great justice fighter in our history?
These people in the Vietnamese community have every right to fight this fight without being told to shut up, sit down, and move on. Just like the Nguyen supporters have the right to submit Anti-Recall Resolutions. It is a vital First Amendment right, not a privilege. Our country is great because we have the right to freedom of expression, whether you want to hear it or not. So try respecting their feelings and rights, as you would like to be respected for yours~

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Thursday, January 24 at 03:33 PM
275 - You kind of missed the point. No one is denying anyone their rights. And, this silliness hardly rises to the level of anything that Dr. King stood for.
As I originally stated, the recall group certainly has the right to abuse the recall process. I was hoping that reason might enter into this equation, but so far it appears my hopes are falling on deaf ears.
If they want to launch a recall that will further divide their district and our city, so be it. They certainly have the freedom to be wrong.

Posted by Sari
Thursday, January 24 at 04:45 PM
#275,

That is an interesting concept. The struggles of blacks in this country for equal rights, and to not be hung just because they are black, is no different than whining over a shopping center name.

Posted by MLK Rolling In His Grave
Thursday, January 24 at 05:24 PM
#276- While I do not at this time think Madison should be recalled, I think you have missed the point. This isn’t about just a name to this community, nor is it just about recalling someone who voted against them. Try reading all their points and feelings on this issue. Do some research into what the communists did to these people, and their struggle to come here on boats with nothing but the shirts on their backs. Try looking at the great things and contributions this community has made to San Jose, and you will see this is not some trite fly by night temper tantrum. Perhaps then you will understand that it is a matter of something beyond just a fight over a shopping center name.

#277- You must not know your history very well if you think Dr. Martin Luther King’s legacy was about just equal rights for blacks. Try picking up a History book and read all the things he was fighting for. He fought for the poor, immigrants, voting rights, affordable housing, he was anti-war, and many other things that clearly you know little to nothing about.
My bottom line here is this, I have seen many of you try to argue with these Vietnamese people to get them to STOP their fight for justice, rather than just voicing your opinion, and respecting their right to proceed as they see fit. As a mediator I know that this type of conflict makes people uneasy, and they want to shut it down, make it go a way. Why? So they can feel comfortable again. Well, these people aren’t going to go away. Nor should they, so if you can’t support their cause, voice your opposition in a respectful manner, and then allow them the right to fight this as they see fit, without judging them by your standards. In Russia they say,” No man is a mountain.” You never know, one day you may feel strongly about something and these people may be the difference between your success, or failure in obtaining it.

Posted by Kathleen Flynn in San Jose
Thursday, January 24 at 08:59 PM
278 - I am very clear what this is about. I have been in the same situation, more than once, with the City Council. I objected, I spoke out, and I was very disappointed in the so-called democratic process—and then I moved on.
I expressed my disappointment when the next election(s) came up. I didn’t try to recall a Councilmember because I vehemently opposed their vote.
I am also well aware of the terrible things that many of these folks went through—so did many of my ancestors and those of many others on this blog. You don’t need to be condescending to the rest of us as if you are the holder of all the knowledge on this issue.
I understand. You and I disagree about the path they are taking. I think it is destructive and hurtful to their cause, you apparently do not.
In spite of your comments, I do believe this is a temper tantrum that pales in comparison to the real, critical issues facing D7 and the Vietnamese community. They are undoing all the good they have done in the community—and for what?
Thanks for your comments but others of us have been actively involved in the community for many years and don’t need a lecture from you. I appreciate your attempts to try to tone down the rhetoric but it’s not working if you read the comments from the representatives of the Vietnamese community. They are single-focused and apparently do not care what damage they do or how long it will take to undo that damage.

Posted by Sari
Thursday, January 24 at 10:20 PM
The fall of Saigon

After April 30, 1975 when the U.S. decided to abandon Vietnam, the South of Vietnam endured the human suffering on an unmatched level far worse than war. The Communist victors unemotionally crushed the people‘s basic human rights. Their apparatus are covered by lies and deception. It is very difficult for outsiders to imagine the tragedy that the South Vietnamese had to go through. Only those who have suffered under communism can fully grasp the true nature of the system. The regime considers religious faith a product of superstitious and uncivilized people; therefore, justifying its policy to abolish organized religions. Right after April 1975, they began to suppress religious groups in the South, many died in confinement and in mysterious circumstance. Dignitaries and intellectuals at all levels have been persecuted and imprisoned. Many of them were released in such a weakened condition only to await their impending death. They intimidated religious followers to prevent them from attending services at churches and pagodas. They forced clergymen and civilians to clear the land and to dig irrigation canals. These suppressive moves have resulted in tragic consequences for all religions and civilians’ life. The Vietnamese Communists had purposely immersed in tears of those who still live and sat upon the graves of those who had perished in the so called re-education camps. Any Vietnamese citizen can be detained at any time, and the communist authorities at all levels from central government to province have the power to jail people whenever they wish. One should not think that communist only imprisoned soldiers and officials serving under the former Republic of Vietnam. After their victory, they detained all those including civilians deemed not positive for their rule. Authorities have confiscated and destroyed books and newspapers published in the South and forced their ideology into all aspect of life. There is only one source of knowledge and culture: The communist party’s newspapers, the party’s books, and the party’s directions which every citizen must study and obey. Many civilians’ house and property were confiscated and they were herded into resettlement in parched land by the name “new economics zones”. They controlled the amount of money each person had by periodically generating new currency and had them exchanged at their unfair rate. They shipped fresh rice to their communist alliances to pay back for the debts while rationed the people’s food portion with coarse barley that only animals could eat. The police could search any home day or nigh or harass anyone anytime anywhere they wished. People who stayed overnight in places other than their residence had to obtain government permission. They have to report to local authorities, giving their length of stay and nature of their business. Once a week, adults had to meet with their neighbors to study and discuss party’s directions and government policies; and to criticize or report on words or deeds by their neighbors or family members that might be negative to the regime. All letters received from overseas were censured, screened before being delivered to the addressee.

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 25 at 07:46 AM
The new land and moving forward

Living in such a suffocated atmosphere, where the mental and physical needs are in constant trauma and despair, and being torn with their tradition rooted in their land, the South Vietnamese risked their life to venture to the treacherous seas to escape life under communism.

Half of those escaped perished at seas or in jungles on their risky way to search for freedom. A large number of innocent young girls and women were raped by Thailand pirates or taken away by them and no one will ever know the fate of these pitiful human beings. For those who could make it to the shore and in the moment of their greatest need, Americans and many people in the world opened their hearts to welcome the Vietnamese into their land.

The Vietnamese émigrés have flourished everywhere they resided. They put their trauma deep in their soul to move forward and focus on building their new life and assimilating in their adopted country. They worked diligently night and day to support their family. They learned new language and skill to quickly adapt to the new environment. After 32 years, they have created many successful Vietnamese communities, businesses and greatly contributed to their new country. Their children thrive at school and mostly the second generation of the Vietnamese has fully assimilated and has difficulty speaking their mother language. They come to love their new country and to enjoy the human rights existing in their new land.

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 25 at 07:48 AM
Moving forward and the moral fight

After terminating those that deemed negative to their regime, the Vietnamese Communist Party (VCP) becomes Red Capitalists.

They confiscated the assets, and properties of the well to do of South Vietnamese people. They pushed these people out to the dangerous seas to die after robbing them or herded them to the new economic zone to survive in uninhabitable condition. My family was in this situation when they had a campaign to eliminate the capitalists from the South of Vietnam. They ransacked and confiscated our home and herded us to the new economic zone, fortunately we managed to escape instead. The VCP becomes very rich and one of the most corrupted people on earth. They take all chances to squeeze money from people. There are briberies on all levels of government and society. They steal and loot the country’s resources. They sell Vietnamese innocent children and naïve young girls to become sex slaves for foreigners in Vietnam and abroad. They destroyed the moralities of the Vietnamese society which prides itself on honesty and self-esteem. They go on with their unending greed by confiscated lands from the elderly peasants and poor farmers. They sided with foreign investors to exploit the Vietnamese laborers for their profit. They confiscated foreign monetary aids in their own use and build shoddy constructions harming innocent civilians. They sell medical supplies aided by foreign countries to the market for their taking. The whole population is under their totalitarian web from which the Vietnamese people are unable to escape with their own power. Here in America, The VCP uses this blood money to play capitalistic activities, manipulate politics and to control the Vietnamese-Americans.

Currently, the most disheartening thing is their selling part of Vietnam land, the northern border, Spratly and Paracel islands to China. The patriotic Vietnamese students in Vietnam demonstrated against this horrendous invading and were harshly halted by the Vietnamese police. Frightfully while at the Chinese consulate, these Vietnamese police safely guarded the freedom of speech for the Chinese to say Spratly and Paracel islands are Chinese’s blood.

Facing the destruction of their motherland under the communist rule, being torn and in great pain by the sufferings of their own people in Vietnam, and their motherland being gradually lost to China, the majority of the oversea Vietnamese-Americans have a burning desire to have a free and democratic Vietnam surpassing anything else. This strong desire keeps enflaming a strong anti-communist sentiment in the Vietnamese- American community. The Heritage, Freedom, yellow flag with 3 red stripes of South Vietnam and the Little Saigon are the deep aspirations and statements of the oversea Vietnamese against the VCP, and the moral fight must prevail. The battle, therefore, has to go on!

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 25 at 07:50 AM
Dear Mr. Johnmichael O’connor and Steve:

I just posted 3 posts before this post to answer your questions on your post #245. To answer your question you need to know our history. The Vietnamese did move on and we don’t wear our pain on your sleeve. This is a noble and moral fight that only the first generation of Vietnamese Americans are our last best hope to carry on this fight whom still have a strong connection with our motherland.

Julie Nguyen

Posted by in San Jose
Friday, January 25 at 07:57 AM
Julie #280--I doubt many people would fail to be moved by the struggles of those remaining in VietNam, but what does all that have to do with the name of a tiny business area in SJ, CA?

Posted by
Friday, January 25 at 11:18 AM
#279- Thank you for your thoughts, comments, and for proving my point. Personally attacking others or me on this post will not change the way any of us view this. Your post reflects to me that you really don’t get the point being discussed. During Dr. King’s struggles, many people said things like, our people have suffered too, what’s the big deal, there are more important things to worry about, move on etc. You can’t honestly say that your comments are any different because they are not. Fights for freedom, or fight for change is not easy, as you already know, as you have said you’ve lost your own battles too. But if you just give up, then change will never happen. These folks have valid concerns like the failure of due process, Brown Act violations, a tax payer survey being ignored, promises made and broken, and several other points that seem to be being over looked by you and others.
Secondly, I don’t agree with some of the things this community is doing and if you read my posts, you would see that. But where you and I differ is that I don’t dismiss their points of view, or others because I have a need to be right here. To me, that is a disservice to them, and is, in my view, most certainly condescending to tell them that their fight is hurting the community. I can’t and won’t make a judgment on them for their need to fight this out and see this through to the end, as long as they are non violent about it, and follow due process while doing it. All justice fighters have been told, you are hurting XYZ group, and sometimes that is true, sometimes it is necessary to make needed change.
I too have dedicated my time, energy, and money to better this community. I too have fought for something before Council and lost, but by voicing my opinion, I am doing more than the average citizen who just sits by doing nothing, complains when things aren’t done right.
If you want to consider my thoughts and opinions a lecture, that is certainly your right, but I am not the one who posted personal attacks, and lectured anyone, you and MLK Rollin In His Grave did. If you want a civil discussion and a fair